(Ep 52) The Mental Side of Jiu Jitsu with Big John Christian, PsyD

WEBVTT

00:00:00.017 --> 00:00:07.017
Welcome back to Fighters Drinking Coffee. Today, we have friend of the show, John Christian.

00:00:07.317 --> 00:00:13.557
He is a world champion, double gold. By the way, he wouldn't tell you this,

00:00:13.717 --> 00:00:19.597
but I'm going to because I'm proud of my training partner's accomplishments.

00:00:19.657 --> 00:00:24.597
But he's a double gold world champion, Masters Worlds, Ultra Heavyweight Masters 4.

00:00:25.497 --> 00:00:29.777
Dad bot division. Dad bot division. I like that.

00:00:30.017 --> 00:00:33.997
They should change the name um he is also a

00:00:33.997 --> 00:00:37.377
clinic a licensed clinical psychologist uh

00:00:37.377 --> 00:00:40.477
he'll expand on that as much as he sees

00:00:40.477 --> 00:00:43.277
fit um so last week we had talked

00:00:43.277 --> 00:00:47.917
about some well last two weeks at this point uh we had talked about some some

00:00:47.917 --> 00:00:53.057
things that have psychological uh i don't know limitations i don't know the

00:00:53.057 --> 00:00:56.997
wording for it uh but things that like have to do with the human psyche and

00:00:56.997 --> 00:01:01.117
we're just a couple of athletes and not experts,

00:01:01.457 --> 00:01:05.437
Scott and I, not experts in the field of psychology. Speak to yourself.

00:01:06.077 --> 00:01:10.797
I make a lot of stuff up. At least we don't have licenses to be evaluating it.

00:01:10.937 --> 00:01:11.917
Let's at least go with that.

00:01:13.911 --> 00:01:17.711
I mean i took ap psych uh so you

00:01:17.711 --> 00:01:20.951
know i know something more ap psych than i did but

00:01:20.951 --> 00:01:23.811
uh but john here big john as

00:01:23.811 --> 00:01:28.051
we call him i've probably referenced him on the show before um he

00:01:28.051 --> 00:01:32.491
he is licensed to talk about these things well i don't know that's what the

00:01:32.491 --> 00:01:35.891
license gives you but he actually has the background knowledge for it uh john

00:01:35.891 --> 00:01:40.591
welcome on the show we're glad to have you um so tell us tell us about psychology

00:01:40.591 --> 00:01:44.571
being a world champion please start with star wars Do you want to start with

00:01:44.571 --> 00:01:47.071
Star Wars now? I was going to let him introduce.

00:01:47.471 --> 00:01:50.651
We can start with Star Wars, and then we can go into it. Let's follow me. You pick.

00:01:50.851 --> 00:01:54.271
All right, let's start with Star Wars. Because I also know that you have an

00:01:54.271 --> 00:01:58.911
alternate theory, but I want to hear, who is Obi-Wan Kenobi?

00:02:01.671 --> 00:02:06.271
This is a good question. Because I'm feeling like Craig Jones. Oh.

00:02:07.031 --> 00:02:11.151
Because he's sort of become the symbol of good. Okay. So we're moving him.

00:02:11.391 --> 00:02:14.031
I actually don't hate this right now. this is good you know if

00:02:14.031 --> 00:02:17.111
there's one character that's sort of the symbol of like

00:02:17.111 --> 00:02:23.451
the good throughout i would say ob obi-wan and so craig constantly in opposition

00:02:23.451 --> 00:02:27.911
that's what i'm going with all right i like this craig so craig jones is now

00:02:27.911 --> 00:02:31.771
we have now left and i think in this instance we're moving on from the clone

00:02:31.771 --> 00:02:34.711
wars then is that what we're doing here we're are we moving

00:02:35.151 --> 00:02:40.031
are we are we saying the clone wars are over i don't hate it has gordon ryan killed the young,

00:02:40.791 --> 00:02:44.091
links for just this helps

00:02:44.091 --> 00:02:48.011
time stamp us in the star wars chronology i

00:02:48.011 --> 00:02:50.951
like that this has slowly evolved into a star wars podcast kind

00:02:50.951 --> 00:02:53.611
of man pretty soon it won't be about jujitsu i've been i've been

00:02:53.611 --> 00:02:57.331
like hashtagging star wars in our posts and like and then like you'll get like

00:02:57.331 --> 00:03:00.151
sometimes in your hashtag or something like that like a random post of like

00:03:00.151 --> 00:03:03.891
send us this link and it's like the star wars accounts will like send us this

00:03:03.891 --> 00:03:08.451
link and i'm like who the hell no you i'm sharing this with at Star Wars community

00:03:08.451 --> 00:03:11.791
doc at Star Wars community don't think I wasn't like maybe we'll get some residual

00:03:11.791 --> 00:03:13.051
Star Wars nerds to kind of,

00:03:13.711 --> 00:03:18.491
gravitate over towards us we're just trying to cross over but as a nerd you know I actually saw it.

00:03:19.565 --> 00:03:23.965
All right, yes, this is good. All right. I re-watched the Hobbit series recently,

00:03:23.965 --> 00:03:26.205
by the way, so I'm kind of like, I've been warming up for this.

00:03:26.525 --> 00:03:30.685
So I was a huge closeted nerd for, like, much of my, you know,

00:03:31.265 --> 00:03:35.205
young adulthood and childhood. You know, I was the jock who secretly was reading

00:03:35.205 --> 00:03:37.045
about wizards and elves and shit.

00:03:37.785 --> 00:03:40.165
I can't let my friends know. That's right.

00:03:41.605 --> 00:03:46.065
In fact, one thing I was attracted to my wife, she's a huge nerd.

00:03:46.125 --> 00:03:49.185
And I was like, you can be hot and, like, a nerd.

00:03:49.725 --> 00:03:52.345
I'm going to marry you now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're the one.

00:03:52.385 --> 00:03:56.385
All right, but the way I see it, Donaher is Sauron.

00:03:56.745 --> 00:03:58.745
Okay. He's the Dark Lord.

00:03:59.325 --> 00:04:04.165
Okay. The creator of the rings. Gornon, Saruman, if you get this. I'm tracking.

00:04:05.445 --> 00:04:08.925
And Craig is Gandalf. Okay. He's sort of wandering around, trying to create

00:04:08.925 --> 00:04:11.065
an alliance of good to fight the evil.

00:04:11.545 --> 00:04:16.185
That's what I'm still... Okay, okay. But the problem, Mikey pointed out a problem with this theory.

00:04:16.185 --> 00:04:20.385
All the other characters on the bad side just turned to orcs yeah he previewed

00:04:20.385 --> 00:04:25.165
it and I was like you know you're kind of taking all of the people that follow

00:04:25.165 --> 00:04:28.745
them and just turning them into like these nameless characters,

00:04:30.085 --> 00:04:35.505
which isn't necessarily a bad thing I'm cool with it I just like Mikey Musumashi as Gollum yes.

00:04:37.105 --> 00:04:42.865
He's Jar Jar he kind of walks weird he doesn't walk weird he's sitting there

00:04:42.865 --> 00:04:47.745
he's always eating That's what he is, obviously. Always eating, just, yeah, you know.

00:04:48.145 --> 00:04:51.305
Well, and Gollum's always, he's just gnoshing on raw fish.

00:04:52.325 --> 00:04:54.705
Won't eat potatoes, by the way. No, he doesn't like potatoes.

00:04:56.265 --> 00:04:59.285
I could get behind that. And yeah, you're right. It does get a little bit tough

00:04:59.285 --> 00:05:01.545
because the bad guys in Lord of the Rings don't have a lot of names.

00:05:01.785 --> 00:05:04.065
There's two, like you said. You know, maybe like,

00:05:04.774 --> 00:05:11.394
Okay, how about this? You got Sauron, Saruman, and then you do have the Uruk-hai.

00:05:11.694 --> 00:05:13.834
Okay. You have like advanced bad guys.

00:05:14.294 --> 00:05:18.034
You also have those English. Which is King's Way. I'm with it.

00:05:18.974 --> 00:05:23.854
Gordon sort of made them. So maybe some of the guys that Gordon knighted could be the Uruk-hai.

00:05:24.154 --> 00:05:27.154
Because they're more than just orcs, but then there's definitely hordes of orcs.

00:05:27.174 --> 00:05:29.954
We also have the options of the Ringwraiths. True that.

00:05:30.134 --> 00:05:34.274
So that could also be, there's another option there. That's good. That's good.

00:05:34.814 --> 00:05:40.014
Yeah, so that could be the men that were, right?

00:05:40.114 --> 00:05:43.894
Because that's what it is. The fallen kings. The kings that were enticed by

00:05:43.894 --> 00:05:49.514
Sauron and turned into wraiths. And they lost their humanity. Yeah. Indeed.

00:05:49.934 --> 00:05:53.614
And now they're just hunting for the ring. That's their only goal.

00:05:54.154 --> 00:05:57.674
That's all they do. Killing hobbits, apparently, too. On behalf of Donahue.

00:05:57.954 --> 00:06:02.834
Yeah, on behalf of Donahue. Which, you know, that lines up. So now I'm back in. I'm back in.

00:06:03.634 --> 00:06:06.474
I like the counter narratives I like it I'm into it I

00:06:06.474 --> 00:06:09.594
think we're open minded when it comes to trying to find a nerd

00:06:09.594 --> 00:06:12.374
lore to assign Jutsu to it's good well it

00:06:12.374 --> 00:06:15.334
can all be true too the only difference between the

00:06:15.334 --> 00:06:24.394
two um which I think our last guest Nack would have issue with uh which is okay

00:06:24.394 --> 00:06:31.154
but uh is the the like Lord of the Rings doesn't necessarily have the gray area

00:06:31.154 --> 00:06:34.334
the same way it kind of does though There's a theme of the gray,

00:06:34.554 --> 00:06:36.934
but it's a little more cut and dry. It's a little more black and white.

00:06:39.214 --> 00:06:42.014
What about Boromir, dude? Boromir was like struggling. Yeah.

00:06:42.734 --> 00:06:47.514
Yeah, yeah. Some of the men, they don't really put men in good light in the Lord of the Rings.

00:06:47.914 --> 00:06:51.614
No, whatever. It's lore. It's lore. It's lore. The men were kind of like constantly

00:06:51.614 --> 00:06:52.974
like, are we good? Are we bad? We want to be good, but we're kind of bad.

00:06:52.974 --> 00:06:54.954
It's pretty much everyone, only the elves.

00:06:55.114 --> 00:06:58.774
Only the elves are the good, right? So I guess there is the gray.

00:06:58.954 --> 00:07:00.114
There is a lot of the gray in there.

00:07:00.994 --> 00:07:05.734
But a little bit less than in like Star Wars Star Wars is more about balance whereas Star Wars,

00:07:06.269 --> 00:07:09.949
Lord of the Rings about destroying evil, which, hey, maybe it does need to be

00:07:09.949 --> 00:07:14.849
destroyed, especially with the things that have been coming out recently with

00:07:14.849 --> 00:07:18.709
just all the evil that is within. Maybe we have the wrong Sauron.

00:07:18.909 --> 00:07:22.009
Maybe we need to reframe that. Well, you don't know.

00:07:22.249 --> 00:07:26.789
You're like, no, there's a gray area here. I'm like, no, there's good and bad in this story.

00:07:27.689 --> 00:07:31.129
Yeah, I'm like, you know, maybe there really was. Maybe it really is all good

00:07:31.129 --> 00:07:33.949
and evil. It's going to be a ring wraith. Yeah. Oh, no.

00:07:35.249 --> 00:07:40.429
Maybe I'm Boromir. I hope not. Maybe I'm Boromir. But it means I die before

00:07:40.429 --> 00:07:42.809
I go full evil, so that's okay. No, you turn back to the good side.

00:07:42.909 --> 00:07:44.409
Yeah, you turn back, go out in a blaze of glory.

00:07:44.609 --> 00:07:48.069
You die a good man in a blaze of glory. A blaze of glory. That would be somebody...

00:07:48.069 --> 00:07:51.569
What better way to die is there? It's really the best way. Yeah.

00:07:51.929 --> 00:07:56.369
In this scenario, that would mean whoever is Boromir gets...

00:07:58.835 --> 00:08:04.835
Tempted to, in this case, Kingsway, and then kills a bunch of them.

00:08:05.735 --> 00:08:09.635
Takes them all out. So he flips sides at the last moment, takes them all out,

00:08:09.715 --> 00:08:14.575
and then he gets one of the other orcs, kills him. Uruk-hai.

00:08:14.755 --> 00:08:17.935
And then he's out forever, never comes back to the sport of jiu-jitsu.

00:08:18.295 --> 00:08:21.815
I do like this. I'm back in. I'm buying into this one now.

00:08:22.115 --> 00:08:25.255
We just need to write it down. It's turning into nerds drinking coffee.

00:08:25.395 --> 00:08:29.055
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It always has been. We've been closeted nerds.

00:08:29.135 --> 00:08:30.515
We've been hiding our nerd love.

00:08:30.755 --> 00:08:35.235
Well, we have, well, not only in the lore of fighters drinking coffee,

00:08:35.315 --> 00:08:39.735
but just in jiu-jitsu lore, it's pretty much been decided that the crossover

00:08:39.735 --> 00:08:45.335
between extreme nerd and jiu-jitsu athlete is...

00:08:45.335 --> 00:08:47.455
Abundant. Pretty much 100%. Oh, yeah.

00:08:47.695 --> 00:08:49.855
It's not a Venn diagram. It's a circle.

00:08:50.235 --> 00:08:53.855
A thousand percent. Hey, there's actually... Not to bring psychology.

00:08:54.175 --> 00:08:56.335
Oh, no. Maybe that's why you're here. There's a personality trait,

00:08:56.535 --> 00:09:01.855
a certain model, called openness, okay? Openness to experience.

00:09:02.115 --> 00:09:07.155
And there's a sub-facet of that that is people load on of openness to fantasy.

00:09:07.395 --> 00:09:11.115
So it's an idea of alternative worlds. So there's an actual personality trait

00:09:11.115 --> 00:09:15.655
of people who are attracted to these sort of ideas of different realities.

00:09:15.655 --> 00:09:19.955
And it tends to be correlated with people who are open to learning in general

00:09:19.955 --> 00:09:24.755
and sort of open to new experiences. So it would statistically load on people

00:09:24.755 --> 00:09:25.715
who are interested in this.

00:09:26.435 --> 00:09:29.555
Well, people tend to get really into jiu-jitsu, right?

00:09:29.635 --> 00:09:34.995
As we are all nerding out on legitimate nerd stuff, but we're kind of bringing

00:09:34.995 --> 00:09:41.255
it into our nerd world of jiu-jitsu as well, where there's an abundant big subculture. So it is like a new...

00:09:42.512 --> 00:09:45.752
You guys have probably experienced this slash like seen this with like new guys

00:09:45.752 --> 00:09:48.572
who come in and they're a white belt, but like they show up to the gym.

00:09:48.692 --> 00:09:50.572
They really like it. They become your buddies.

00:09:51.352 --> 00:09:53.132
They're in open mats all the time. Maybe they're doing this.

00:09:53.212 --> 00:09:55.772
You guys are six or the five 30 a.m. crew. What are you the five 30 a.m.

00:09:56.012 --> 00:09:57.172
Crew? You guys are the morning brothers.

00:09:57.552 --> 00:10:00.732
The best crew. You guys are built different, but maybe they show up to some

00:10:00.732 --> 00:10:03.812
morning classes and you can like, I'm sure you all have seen this,

00:10:03.872 --> 00:10:06.352
but like I've seen this so many times, but like someone comes in and then like,

00:10:06.572 --> 00:10:12.412
they're like, they, they enter into the jujitsu subculture and then they get like immersed in it.

00:10:12.512 --> 00:10:15.412
And then they talk to you about the current events like we're talking about.

00:10:15.532 --> 00:10:18.232
So it's like, you're right. Like, there's like a, you can see someone kind of

00:10:18.232 --> 00:10:20.632
take the plunge into like, oh, I'm in jiu-jitsu now.

00:10:20.892 --> 00:10:23.852
It's like jiu-jitsu lore. Who is this guy? Oh, yeah. Who's number one?

00:10:24.092 --> 00:10:26.472
Following all the dramas and stuff. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I can't believe it occupies

00:10:26.472 --> 00:10:31.392
so much of my brain at this point. But knowing who these people are and who hates who.

00:10:31.572 --> 00:10:36.152
It was so much simpler when we initially got into jiu-jitsu because it didn't exist.

00:10:36.272 --> 00:10:39.452
There wasn't as much. There's no Instagram. there was no like

00:10:39.452 --> 00:10:42.232
jujitsu lore into the extent there

00:10:42.232 --> 00:10:44.752
is now there was there was a little bit like there was a little bit of like

00:10:44.752 --> 00:10:48.532
the well this team and this team are rivals but that was kind of the extent

00:10:48.532 --> 00:10:52.932
of it because they couldn't shit talk on instagram so you had a lot less lore

00:10:52.932 --> 00:11:01.792
to consume and maybe that was for the best but i enjoy it i do enjoy the jujitsu lore um bm m uh.

00:11:03.191 --> 00:11:06.151
He was anything else on Star Wars and Lord of the Rings. No,

00:11:06.271 --> 00:11:08.411
I think that covers it. Oh, okay.

00:11:08.651 --> 00:11:11.251
For now. Okay. For now. We might weave it back in. It'll come back.

00:11:11.391 --> 00:11:13.951
It'll get well in. I'll weave it back in eventually. You're welcome to weave

00:11:13.951 --> 00:11:16.471
it back in as much as you want. Whichever one, it doesn't matter.

00:11:17.851 --> 00:11:22.731
But yeah, so let's, before we break into, because we did bring you on to talk

00:11:22.731 --> 00:11:25.211
about psychology stuff a little bit.

00:11:25.371 --> 00:11:28.431
It doesn't have to be all of it, but. That's what I do. Yeah.

00:11:29.571 --> 00:11:34.151
Let's just break down your psychology background to the extent that you can.

00:11:34.491 --> 00:11:39.651
Yeah, of course. And that way the listeners understand that this is an,

00:11:39.831 --> 00:11:42.991
this is in fact an expert. We're not bringing on a random person.

00:11:43.991 --> 00:11:50.911
In some things. Yeah. Well, he's an expert in jujitsu. He won master's world at least to a level.

00:11:52.371 --> 00:11:56.751
The dad bod division. He is a master of dad bod jitsu.

00:11:58.691 --> 00:12:03.171
So, but yeah. Yeah, background, professional background. John Christian,

00:12:03.391 --> 00:12:05.451
the psychologist, who is he? What does he do?

00:12:05.831 --> 00:12:09.951
Yeah, well, I got interested in psychology originally. So I went to college

00:12:09.951 --> 00:12:10.831
because I wanted to wrestle.

00:12:11.131 --> 00:12:15.311
And so that didn't I want to major in. And the...

00:12:15.785 --> 00:12:19.925
My department chair, who remains a friend of me this day, happened to be a fan of the team.

00:12:20.005 --> 00:12:24.005
So my coach just said, go major in psychology. So I signed up for psychology.

00:12:25.025 --> 00:12:28.865
The first course I took, which was with a different person, Dr.

00:12:28.945 --> 00:12:31.445
Linnae Hunt, she was just this amazing professor.

00:12:31.825 --> 00:12:35.225
And the class blew my mind away. And I was like, I took all the courses.

00:12:35.605 --> 00:12:40.065
And then Dr. Gary Taylor, who is the guy I mentioned who was a fan of the team,

00:12:40.485 --> 00:12:44.885
he said, hey, if you want to do anything, you got to go get your doctorate with

00:12:44.885 --> 00:12:47.305
it. So I was like, okay, I guess that's what I'm doing next.

00:12:47.625 --> 00:12:51.885
So after I graduated college, went to Indiana State where I got my master's

00:12:51.885 --> 00:12:53.905
and doctorate in clinical psychology.

00:12:55.865 --> 00:13:00.005
And then I actually almost dropped out at one point because I didn't see myself

00:13:00.005 --> 00:13:04.405
kind of sitting in an office all day. I wasn't, you know, I kind of grew up

00:13:04.405 --> 00:13:07.925
in a blue-collar family, and this was like, man, I don't relate to these people.

00:13:08.445 --> 00:13:10.225
It's a lot of, like, drama-type kids.

00:13:10.865 --> 00:13:14.825
I mean, good folks, but I was like, you know, I'd just been a college athlete

00:13:14.825 --> 00:13:20.405
and didn't feel that. So my dissertation chair at this point said, like, hey, slow down.

00:13:21.125 --> 00:13:23.085
Have you considered the military? Yeah.

00:13:23.815 --> 00:13:27.235
I didn't know the military took a psychologist, so I looked into it,

00:13:27.595 --> 00:13:32.355
talked to a former military site, and making a long story short,

00:13:32.675 --> 00:13:37.715
looked at all the services, and my Navy recruiter was a, well,

00:13:37.775 --> 00:13:41.255
he's got an FMF corpsman, so Fleet Marine Force corpsman, you know, like the medics.

00:13:41.395 --> 00:13:44.695
He totally sold me on the Navy, flew me to, like, San Diego,

00:13:44.895 --> 00:13:47.995
took me touring an aircraft carrier, took me dancing at Tijuana.

00:13:50.335 --> 00:13:53.555
That's a good sales pitch. Which, yeah, prior service folks,

00:13:53.675 --> 00:13:58.475
like, there's a lot of money to recruit medical-type folks that your standard people don't.

00:13:58.535 --> 00:14:00.775
So, most people aren't getting flown around the country. Okay.

00:14:01.295 --> 00:14:04.775
Anyway, so— John was a wanted man. I wanted to—I really wanted to serve the Marines.

00:14:04.975 --> 00:14:09.975
So, became a psychologist in the Navy, did my residency at what was then National

00:14:09.975 --> 00:14:12.735
Naval Medical Center. But that is it. Now it's been merged with Walter Reed.

00:14:13.175 --> 00:14:17.035
And finished my training there. And then stationed at Camp Lejeune.

00:14:19.075 --> 00:14:21.955
Ended up, again, skipping over a lot.

00:14:22.175 --> 00:14:25.335
Um, as the Marine Special Operations Command was standing up,

00:14:25.415 --> 00:14:28.975
I became the first psychologist over there, helped stand up their assessment selection program.

00:14:29.495 --> 00:14:35.395
Um, then I left active duty, um, continued my career in the government,

00:14:35.835 --> 00:14:40.235
um, uh, worked for State Department for a while and then, um,

00:14:41.055 --> 00:14:42.775
missed the military while I was working there.

00:14:42.895 --> 00:14:45.375
So I went back in the reserves, but this time I, some of my professional mentors

00:14:45.375 --> 00:14:49.275
were, um, in the Army. So during the Army Reserves and Army Special Operations

00:14:49.275 --> 00:14:54.535
Command, where I've been for almost, oh, goodness, I mean, 16 years now.

00:14:54.735 --> 00:15:01.095
And then I went back as a civilian with Department of Defense. Yeah.

00:15:02.138 --> 00:15:07.038
So you've been working with a lot of, to tie this into jiu-jitsu best we can,

00:15:07.498 --> 00:15:10.338
you've been working with a lot of like high-performing individuals.

00:15:10.678 --> 00:15:14.978
And, you know, so there's. My career is really focused on, like,

00:15:15.038 --> 00:15:18.918
I haven't been a psychotherapist since 2007.

00:15:19.798 --> 00:15:24.338
I mean, I'm still licensed to do it. I still can. And a lot of foundational

00:15:24.338 --> 00:15:25.498
sort of skills are from there.

00:15:25.738 --> 00:15:28.738
My career is really focused on like assessment and consulting. thing

00:15:28.738 --> 00:15:33.498
i would say you think it is like um high-risk

00:15:33.498 --> 00:15:39.318
operational personnel type things um high performance type folks yeah yeah i

00:15:39.318 --> 00:15:46.758
like it i like it so um so we wanted to get your take i sent you some of the

00:15:46.758 --> 00:15:52.818
uh some of the stuff from the past two episodes um that we were talking about uh,

00:15:53.458 --> 00:15:56.818
cult like well i didn't send you the cult like behavior but we'll talk we'll

00:15:56.818 --> 00:16:00.258
see what we can get on it but i did send you the uh when we

00:16:00.258 --> 00:16:03.398
were discussing addiction to jiu-jitsu which i think

00:16:03.398 --> 00:16:09.878
what you mentioned regarding um that openness theory might actually play into

00:16:09.878 --> 00:16:14.018
both of these in some way shape or form it it feels like there you were starting

00:16:14.018 --> 00:16:18.418
to lead in a direction there that that seemed real like i don't know it seemed

00:16:18.418 --> 00:16:21.498
seemed like it might go somewhere irrelevant yeah Um.

00:16:22.678 --> 00:16:25.338
So yeah, uh, addiction.

00:16:25.678 --> 00:16:28.858
Let's start there. Let's start with addiction. Let's start riffing on addiction.

00:16:29.078 --> 00:16:34.318
So, um, we were kind of looking at, um, you know, is it, I guess,

00:16:34.458 --> 00:16:37.698
is it like a personality trait, these people coming into it,

00:16:37.738 --> 00:16:40.138
or is it something inherently about the sport?

00:16:40.650 --> 00:16:43.790
That gets people i mean it might even be both but

00:16:43.790 --> 00:16:47.350
i think we were just looking at from like is this a replacement

00:16:47.350 --> 00:16:50.650
for other addictions is this something that people are coming in predisposed

00:16:50.650 --> 00:16:55.070
to or is there something about the sport that specifically uh causes

00:16:55.070 --> 00:16:57.930
people to go all in um so

00:16:57.930 --> 00:17:00.870
is it the people or is it the the activity that is

00:17:00.870 --> 00:17:04.090
that's more leading people to because i mean it's super prominent

00:17:04.090 --> 00:17:06.870
right like a lot of people get into it and they just

00:17:06.870 --> 00:17:10.110
like train all the time they go in from like zero

00:17:10.110 --> 00:17:13.230
to a hundred with the exception of some people but

00:17:13.230 --> 00:17:16.330
um yeah in a way that pickleball doesn't yeah yeah

00:17:16.330 --> 00:17:20.350
like unlike other sports that people pick up as hobbies you know people tend

00:17:20.350 --> 00:17:25.090
to go way more extreme into this yeah so um it's interesting because you can

00:17:25.090 --> 00:17:28.190
view a lot of these things through a couple different lenses and i'll just kind

00:17:28.190 --> 00:17:34.370
of riff on it um i actually have a past of dealing with some of my training my doctoral program,

00:17:34.850 --> 00:17:38.970
pre-mental health, rural Indiana, there was a lot of meth addicts back in the

00:17:38.970 --> 00:17:41.470
day. This is pre-feminal. There's probably feminal addicts now.

00:17:42.330 --> 00:17:46.690
The same people, this different thing. Really hard population to deal with.

00:17:48.330 --> 00:17:52.590
So addiction is interesting. So when we usually talk about addiction and we'll

00:17:52.590 --> 00:17:58.670
take substances, you know, essentially they hijack the brain's reward pathways like neurochemically.

00:17:58.770 --> 00:18:02.650
And so, and there's different ones that, you know,

00:18:02.730 --> 00:18:06.690
neurochemically different effects as you know um but

00:18:06.690 --> 00:18:09.430
if you're talking about like more behavior so like

00:18:09.430 --> 00:18:12.310
a gambling addiction or something like that again you're talking about

00:18:12.310 --> 00:18:15.010
what kind of reward pathways in the brain so you're getting something out of it

00:18:15.010 --> 00:18:18.950
i would say with jujitsu rather than addiction i would say you can view it as

00:18:18.950 --> 00:18:24.510
a highly rewarding or reinforcing if we talk about that like taking more like

00:18:24.510 --> 00:18:31.090
a behavioral approach um and there's a lot of ways i think there's a lot of

00:18:31.090 --> 00:18:34.930
reasons why So I'm going to separate different sort of ways to look at it.

00:18:35.070 --> 00:18:41.810
So first, inherent in jujitsu itself, it's really interesting because there's

00:18:41.810 --> 00:18:42.930
a community aspect, right?

00:18:43.593 --> 00:18:47.513
I mean, one of the things I enjoy is, you know, I've made this larger group

00:18:47.513 --> 00:18:52.273
of friends with people I hadn't, I normally wouldn't be exposed to,

00:18:52.573 --> 00:18:53.393
normally would encounter.

00:18:53.593 --> 00:18:58.213
And it's also, you know, it's a very personal sport because,

00:18:58.293 --> 00:19:00.393
you know, you are touching the other person,

00:19:00.493 --> 00:19:06.873
you know, and you're trusting them to stop when and not break your arm or your

00:19:06.873 --> 00:19:08.633
foot or to stop choking you.

00:19:08.633 --> 00:19:14.773
So there's a lot of trust involved, and I think that's inherently something unique about the sport.

00:19:14.893 --> 00:19:19.273
So the social aspect, and especially the forced trust that it happens.

00:19:20.793 --> 00:19:24.293
The second thing, you know, I come from a wrestling background.

00:19:24.513 --> 00:19:28.213
I was very kind of just the belt thing. I didn't get it. I was like,

00:19:28.373 --> 00:19:32.293
okay, this seems kind of, I mean, it seems lame. I was like, whatever.

00:19:32.653 --> 00:19:36.973
Like, let me out. and you know there's still times I wish I you know can compete

00:19:36.973 --> 00:19:41.253
at a higher level because I was like I want to try you know if I lose or whatever

00:19:41.253 --> 00:19:43.813
but I've really come to respect it

00:19:43.813 --> 00:19:48.473
for many ways and it's something very interesting because it creates this,

00:19:49.166 --> 00:19:54.846
automatic goal, like these goals built into it, but that are very outward facing.

00:19:55.126 --> 00:19:59.566
And it also plays to this human tendency to, especially in men,

00:20:00.146 --> 00:20:02.006
to value status with each other.

00:20:02.146 --> 00:20:04.946
And so you have this hierarchy set up right away.

00:20:05.106 --> 00:20:09.186
And so right away when you come in, you're like, it's a pull people have naturally

00:20:09.186 --> 00:20:11.646
to want to achieve those hard things.

00:20:11.746 --> 00:20:15.286
And it's outward, you know, you wear it around there, you sometimes line up differently.

00:20:16.266 --> 00:20:19.206
You know, Now, the military makes very, very good use of this because,

00:20:19.226 --> 00:20:23.006
you know, different sort of professions. You get a special hat, you know, a green beret.

00:20:24.986 --> 00:20:29.626
But it's a special hat when you come to it. No, I mean, I love green berets. Don't get me wrong.

00:20:30.826 --> 00:20:34.646
But it's a very outward facing. And there's pins and there's badges and there's

00:20:34.646 --> 00:20:38.246
all this stuff that creates hierarchy and it signals to other people this,

00:20:38.406 --> 00:20:40.026
like certain things that you have accomplished.

00:20:40.706 --> 00:20:45.246
And so that appeals to people very much because status is important inherently

00:20:45.246 --> 00:20:49.746
to us, I think, as a creature, because we're inherently social creatures.

00:20:50.086 --> 00:20:52.106
That's a very important thing to understand about people.

00:20:53.866 --> 00:20:59.786
Now, the other interesting thing about it, it's thinking more at sort of a brain perspective.

00:21:01.986 --> 00:21:08.326
So there's sort of this infinite, not quite infinite, but like wealth of knowledge

00:21:08.326 --> 00:21:12.346
you can go down. But there's also this really quick feedback mechanism when

00:21:12.346 --> 00:21:15.226
you're rolling, okay, that often you don't get.

00:21:15.446 --> 00:21:19.506
So you try something and you get a very, very quick feedback on whether it works or not.

00:21:19.726 --> 00:21:24.506
And so it's when something does work and you've been working on that in a while,

00:21:24.986 --> 00:21:27.526
you know, we've all had that experience. It feels really good.

00:21:27.826 --> 00:21:31.086
You know, that's the dopamine hit. That's the telling you you're doing the right thing.

00:21:31.406 --> 00:21:34.806
You know, the dopamine way. I think you guys brought that up.

00:21:35.546 --> 00:21:39.206
Yeah, we were throwing around the word dopamine. Yeah, it's often simplified.

00:21:39.206 --> 00:21:41.786
There's a lot of things it does, but you can think of it.

00:21:43.526 --> 00:21:44.646
It's kind of...

00:21:45.574 --> 00:21:48.434
Nature's it's your brain's way of telling you're on the right track like

00:21:48.434 --> 00:21:52.054
you expect a reward like you're doing something good it's um like

00:21:52.054 --> 00:21:55.734
do this more sort of thing uh and

00:21:55.734 --> 00:21:58.694
you think even in just a role you know you're this

00:21:58.694 --> 00:22:02.094
is happening repeatedly you're doing things you're getting feedback fast fast

00:22:02.094 --> 00:22:06.674
fast fast fast in ways that i like not a lot of other sports have that because

00:22:06.674 --> 00:22:12.514
it's not as dynamic and so you know you got the social aspect you got this um

00:22:12.514 --> 00:22:16.214
with the community the this trust aspect with others.

00:22:16.394 --> 00:22:21.854
You got this learning aspect that has this very quick feedback mechanism that

00:22:21.854 --> 00:22:24.434
does create really good feelings.

00:22:25.283 --> 00:22:29.983
And the other thing I would say is this, I personally believe,

00:22:30.643 --> 00:22:33.643
well, there's just the benefit of physical activity, okay?

00:22:33.823 --> 00:22:38.643
And there's a lot of studies. This isn't pushed enough. My theory is big pharma, bad guys.

00:22:38.983 --> 00:22:46.123
But, you know, exercise is just as effective as antidepressants for mild or moderate depression.

00:22:46.443 --> 00:22:51.623
You don't hear that. I learned that back, you know, 20 years ago when I trained as a psychologist.

00:22:51.623 --> 00:22:55.783
I'm like, why isn't this pushed more? um you know it's just you know have that

00:22:55.783 --> 00:23:00.903
but we are meant to move we are meant to be physical as a creature and so you

00:23:00.903 --> 00:23:03.943
know we've all had those good workouts and you feel good afterwards and the

00:23:03.943 --> 00:23:09.423
other thing i think too that that makes it this is my personal belief is we are happiest

00:23:09.863 --> 00:23:15.843
when we are doing difficult things and you know it's hard you know and so that's

00:23:15.843 --> 00:23:20.163
sort of a rambling way i hope i didn't ramble no no it makes it's i wanted to

00:23:20.163 --> 00:23:23.563
ask you a question too about um because we kind of joked about this on one of

00:23:23.563 --> 00:23:25.563
our, was it the addiction episode? It might have been the addiction episode.

00:23:25.663 --> 00:23:28.283
I'll know once you see the joke. All right, all right. Once you see the thing. The joke, yeah.

00:23:28.663 --> 00:23:31.163
But it was kind of a joke, but kind of serious too, which is like,

00:23:31.283 --> 00:23:36.723
we talked about how the feelings that you get, like the sensations,

00:23:37.263 --> 00:23:38.543
the emotions. I don't know, you're the psychologist.

00:23:38.843 --> 00:23:41.243
I avoid my emotions. I'm like, I think they're called emotions.

00:23:41.283 --> 00:23:43.363
It's when we were talking about addiction. Our competition. Yeah,

00:23:43.703 --> 00:23:44.403
competition and addiction.

00:23:44.683 --> 00:23:48.143
Because I feel like, to your point, all that registers and makes like,

00:23:48.363 --> 00:23:49.743
it's kind of like, this isn't like.

00:23:50.454 --> 00:23:53.254
Surprisingly a lot like jiu-jitsu it's like the fundamentals of like

00:23:53.254 --> 00:23:56.054
human psychology that like you're kind of like duh yeah like we

00:23:56.054 --> 00:23:58.874
should all know that but it's simple but like not always

00:23:58.874 --> 00:24:01.594
easy to understand these things right but they're i have to say

00:24:01.594 --> 00:24:04.654
psychology is just repeating back what people intuitively already

00:24:04.654 --> 00:24:07.654
know it's confirmation they're head nod moments

00:24:07.654 --> 00:24:10.574
you're like yeah that all makes perfect sense um but like

00:24:10.574 --> 00:24:13.414
to your point like all those inherent reward systems just from

00:24:13.414 --> 00:24:16.534
the practice of doing it but i guess what i was trying to get at that me

00:24:16.534 --> 00:24:19.614
and mike we're kind of riffing on we were uh hanging out doing an episode a

00:24:19.614 --> 00:24:24.634
week or two ago um i feel like to your point like all those things you get you

00:24:24.634 --> 00:24:28.214
get them like almost like 5x or 10x yeah in like a tournament setting because

00:24:28.214 --> 00:24:32.274
of like the stakes you like maybe because it does bring out that like i'd be

00:24:32.274 --> 00:24:35.074
curious to hear your thoughts on like maybe if there's like a change in in,

00:24:35.714 --> 00:24:38.554
everything you've talked about when we're doing it like publicly right like

00:24:38.554 --> 00:24:41.214
and everyone's watching like oh man like because we were kind of

00:24:41.214 --> 00:24:44.514
basically the art the joke was that like after doing

00:24:44.514 --> 00:24:47.594
that like regular life is kind of just like almost like boring you have to compete

00:24:47.594 --> 00:24:51.254
to feel something to feel things again that was the joke I feel so dead inside

00:24:51.254 --> 00:24:54.354
yeah yeah that's why we were joking about this as a drug that's why I kind of

00:24:54.354 --> 00:24:57.674
like the joke slash like threat of this addiction it's like this is our juju

00:24:57.674 --> 00:25:02.634
is like our drug well no no I think you're onto something because the competition so

00:25:03.054 --> 00:25:04.934
okay so here's my take again,

00:25:05.554 --> 00:25:09.934
um cause this is something I started thinking about when I was an undergraduate

00:25:09.934 --> 00:25:13.834
because you know I was an active competitor in wrestling and I I mean.

00:25:15.012 --> 00:25:19.832
I'll resist going too far down this path, but I would probably get too jacked up, too anxious.

00:25:20.032 --> 00:25:23.652
So it's interesting. There's something, I'll put aside from when we go into

00:25:23.652 --> 00:25:25.512
like how it relates to actual performance.

00:25:25.692 --> 00:25:29.992
But yeah, those feelings, that adrenaline, that anxiety, I mean,

00:25:30.072 --> 00:25:36.232
essentially it's your sympathetic nervous system is marshalling your resources,

00:25:36.232 --> 00:25:39.292
you know, because there's a perceived threat and all things like that.

00:25:39.392 --> 00:25:40.372
There's something on the line.

00:25:40.632 --> 00:25:44.572
And so that's what the sympathetic nervous system does is fight or flight response, right?

00:25:45.752 --> 00:25:50.692
And so that's those rushed feelings and those anxious feelings and all that

00:25:50.692 --> 00:25:52.612
stuff. And so, yeah, you feel very alive.

00:25:52.872 --> 00:25:57.392
Sometimes it's very unpleasant, you know?

00:25:58.192 --> 00:26:02.472
Yeah. It is. Especially if you're new to experiencing that.

00:26:02.652 --> 00:26:07.472
It can be very, very unpleasant. People new to competition and feeling that

00:26:07.472 --> 00:26:11.172
rush and that adrenaline dump and other sorts of things.

00:26:11.172 --> 00:26:16.132
And so if you want to talk about performance, I mean, learning how to manage

00:26:16.132 --> 00:26:19.252
that and master that is a key if you really want to get your best at it.

00:26:19.312 --> 00:26:23.952
But no, I think definitely that is very, very true. That's the joy of it. Yeah.

00:26:24.772 --> 00:26:28.752
So you do bring up people. There are definitely people and I've coached people

00:26:28.752 --> 00:26:31.172
that afterwards like, yeah, I don't want to do that again. That sucks.

00:26:31.792 --> 00:26:34.812
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like there's definitely people that are like that. um

00:26:34.812 --> 00:26:37.992
and kind of pushing our

00:26:37.992 --> 00:26:45.592
narrative of it being drug-like you do get used to it yes so like the more you

00:26:45.592 --> 00:26:49.512
do and like you kind of have to like you know i mean i experienced this last

00:26:49.512 --> 00:26:57.032
year getting back into competition like you get used to certain levels of competition and so like you,

00:26:57.512 --> 00:27:00.032
As you go, you're like, yeah, I'm not really worried about this.

00:27:00.252 --> 00:27:03.472
And then you get to, like, I get to a bigger one, and it's like,

00:27:03.932 --> 00:27:06.172
oh, no, like, this is a little bit, no, this is a different rush.

00:27:06.292 --> 00:27:08.612
It's a little more of a rush. And then, like, an even bigger one is like,

00:27:08.652 --> 00:27:12.432
oh, this is now, and so, like, it just takes, I don't know, it takes more and more to fill the needs.

00:27:12.592 --> 00:27:16.172
I'm a firm believer that, like, if you want to be good at competing,

00:27:16.352 --> 00:27:22.112
learning how to manage that mental side and how to manage that sympathetic nervous

00:27:22.112 --> 00:27:24.032
system response is a skill in itself.

00:27:24.032 --> 00:27:26.832
Okay so if you you want to get better at

00:27:26.832 --> 00:27:29.712
competing do some competitions like and learn how to manage that

00:27:29.712 --> 00:27:32.612
um and some people

00:27:32.612 --> 00:27:36.392
never truly masterly said i don't think it was till my junior college that really

00:27:36.392 --> 00:27:40.412
started figuring out the mental side of the game and i'd been a youth wrestler

00:27:40.412 --> 00:27:45.972
you know and so it took however long that was i mean 12 years you're also still

00:27:45.972 --> 00:27:48.932
like growing as a human being too i was growing as a human being frontal lobes

00:27:48.932 --> 00:27:51.932
still forming absolutely but um yeah because.

00:27:52.552 --> 00:27:55.312
So it's interesting with that arousal because arousal is

00:27:55.312 --> 00:27:58.092
another way to put it not from sexual arousal obviously if you're doing

00:27:58.092 --> 00:28:02.732
that that's you know also appropriate in jiu-jitsu oh no

00:28:02.732 --> 00:28:05.832
no but like physiological arousal and

00:28:05.832 --> 00:28:09.012
so um there's something in um probably the

00:28:09.012 --> 00:28:11.892
only law that i know of in psychology called the yurki's dodson

00:28:11.892 --> 00:28:15.152
law you guys might remember from psych 101 class so it

00:28:15.152 --> 00:28:18.652
has to do with the level of arousal and performance on tasks and so you picture

00:28:18.652 --> 00:28:24.292
like a like a bell curve picture that where say the y-axis showed up and down

00:28:24.292 --> 00:28:29.672
is performance and then um arousal like that so if you have too high of arousal

00:28:29.672 --> 00:28:33.072
and then these guys yerkies and thos and i can't remember their first names i mean this this,

00:28:33.953 --> 00:28:36.753
goes back to the 30s there's i think doing studies on

00:28:36.753 --> 00:28:39.473
mice if i remember i don't know it's been a while since i read it but

00:28:39.473 --> 00:28:42.353
um if you

00:28:42.353 --> 00:28:45.293
have too high of arousal you're too amped up you are

00:28:45.293 --> 00:28:50.493
your performance drops if you have too low of arousal same thing you're not

00:28:50.493 --> 00:28:56.773
performing adequately and the trick is everybody's individual level of tolerance

00:28:56.773 --> 00:29:00.153
for that seems to be a little different and so you guys are both coaches you've

00:29:00.153 --> 00:29:03.273
probably seen this some people maybe get too amped up and,

00:29:03.953 --> 00:29:05.053
That amped up,

00:29:05.713 --> 00:29:11.053
that sympathetic nervous system response can create a tunnel vision, right?

00:29:11.253 --> 00:29:14.753
Because it's fight or flight response. And so they might start missing opportunities

00:29:14.753 --> 00:29:18.073
or they're not doing as well. They're forgetting things.

00:29:20.433 --> 00:29:24.093
Similarly, too low, you know, it's like you're not performing your best as soon

00:29:24.093 --> 00:29:25.433
as you walk right out of bed, right?

00:29:26.033 --> 00:29:31.473
You got to be, your performance, your attention isn't focused enough and that sort of thing.

00:29:31.593 --> 00:29:34.593
Your thoughts aren't focused enough. I do want to point out on that,

00:29:34.713 --> 00:29:36.433
that John doesn't believe in warmups.

00:29:38.593 --> 00:29:42.133
Sean, how dare you? So I just want to point this out. But at the same time.

00:29:42.133 --> 00:29:44.733
I like the warmups you've been doing lately. Actual. Yeah.

00:29:45.253 --> 00:29:48.373
Now hold on, warmups in class or warmup before a tournament?

00:29:48.693 --> 00:29:50.273
He doesn't warmup before tournaments either.

00:29:51.293 --> 00:29:54.493
If I may, what I want to say though, to give John some credit though,

00:29:54.633 --> 00:29:58.233
to give John some credit, like for, cause I make like all my guys,

00:29:58.333 --> 00:30:00.533
I like make them do warmups for tournaments. It's the right thing to do.

00:30:00.613 --> 00:30:05.333
Yeah, it's the right thing to do. But at the same time, I feel like your background,

00:30:05.513 --> 00:30:08.893
if you get an athlete who's done this enough times and they know what works

00:30:08.893 --> 00:30:12.713
for them, which I would argue you know what works for you, you've done that.

00:30:13.573 --> 00:30:16.813
You've done the homework, and obviously also you're a psychologist,

00:30:16.953 --> 00:30:19.013
so you're educated on what works well for you.

00:30:19.493 --> 00:30:23.033
I think you can't get to a point where you're like, hey, and when we're coaches,

00:30:23.113 --> 00:30:25.973
we just have to instill systems on people because we don't know what we don't know.

00:30:26.635 --> 00:30:29.195
Like I'm just going to do this is what works for 95% of people.

00:30:29.315 --> 00:30:33.995
There's going to, maybe you're in the 5%, but until we get enough data from you, the new guy.

00:30:34.255 --> 00:30:37.735
You know, you got to know you're a perfect level. And at Worlds,

00:30:37.835 --> 00:30:40.315
I did pummel for three minutes with someone. Beautiful.

00:30:40.575 --> 00:30:44.095
Nailed it. All right. I take it back. And look how that turned out.

00:30:44.675 --> 00:30:50.555
That's what I'm saying. But for me, so I know myself, like I perform best when

00:30:50.555 --> 00:30:52.915
I feel relaxed and kind of happy.

00:30:53.215 --> 00:30:56.775
Okay. because, again, all grown up, I would get too amped.

00:30:56.895 --> 00:31:00.115
I'd get too amped, and it was too nervous, and I don't like that.

00:31:00.215 --> 00:31:03.995
I feel the nerves at baseline with it. Even now, part of why I still compete

00:31:03.995 --> 00:31:07.555
is, I mean, I don't like that feeling, but I like mastering.

00:31:07.895 --> 00:31:12.655
Does that make sense? Yeah, it does make sense. I remember even for the World

00:31:12.655 --> 00:31:15.355
Tournament, I saw the Brax come out.

00:31:15.455 --> 00:31:17.855
I looked at the first guy, sort of trying to fight him.

00:31:18.195 --> 00:31:21.915
He's this giant dude, and I got nervous. I remember this.

00:31:22.535 --> 00:31:25.315
He's texting me. giant dude too by the way he's texting

00:31:25.315 --> 00:31:28.315
like really big yeah you're what's hold on what's the name he's

00:31:28.315 --> 00:31:32.095
an ultra heavy he's texting me and

00:31:32.095 --> 00:31:35.215
he's like he's like yo you need to look up this guy and like

00:31:35.215 --> 00:31:39.455
this dude's he sends me the dude's instagram and it's like this giant farmer

00:31:39.455 --> 00:31:43.635
from arkansas i think it was and he's like it's just pictures of this giant

00:31:43.635 --> 00:31:48.215
jack dude in front of corn and like trackers and shit i'm like this is crazy

00:31:48.215 --> 00:31:53.375
i think but also i was like john you're like the same size as this guy. You think he's so big.

00:31:53.635 --> 00:31:55.275
And you're like, John, that could have been you. Total horseshit.

00:31:55.335 --> 00:31:58.535
You went into psychology and like, that could have been you.

00:31:58.555 --> 00:32:00.735
We can take pictures of you in front of Cornyn and trash yours too, bro.

00:32:00.895 --> 00:32:05.355
Yeah, but I remember, I remember I saw that and I was like, I had to do.

00:32:06.749 --> 00:32:09.689
What would be like cognitive therapy on myself would track my thoughts kind

00:32:09.689 --> 00:32:12.549
of lower it down and then remind myself this you know that's why i do it you

00:32:12.549 --> 00:32:17.289
know as to master but yeah performing wise knowing myself like i like i'm usually

00:32:17.289 --> 00:32:22.809
the guy laying in the bullpen area sort of just you know being relaxed and trying

00:32:22.809 --> 00:32:28.789
to be happy and feeling loose when you're gone that's for me but everyone has

00:32:28.789 --> 00:32:32.389
to find their own some people you have to know yourself and you'll only know your performance,

00:32:32.909 --> 00:32:38.189
your optimal level of eligible performance, if you have some reps, like, in competition.

00:32:39.129 --> 00:32:41.809
And, yeah, there's just that.

00:32:41.929 --> 00:32:46.769
So, if there's somebody new out there, you want to compete, do several competitions

00:32:46.769 --> 00:32:48.589
and monitor that for yourself.

00:32:48.749 --> 00:32:53.949
And what I would tell people is really pay attention to your own,

00:32:53.949 --> 00:32:57.129
like, mental level, what your habits are, what you're feeling,

00:32:57.189 --> 00:32:59.769
and then see if you can relate that.

00:33:00.009 --> 00:33:02.929
Do an honest assessment of your performance afterwards regardless of win

00:33:02.929 --> 00:33:05.689
or loss um because sometimes guys are just better than you

00:33:05.689 --> 00:33:09.789
but how you actually performed and um because

00:33:09.789 --> 00:33:14.029
again too amped up i mean guys have seen i see this at times like guys will

00:33:14.029 --> 00:33:20.169
um lose like have bad decisions in a match and it's like use a bad strategy

00:33:20.169 --> 00:33:27.809
you know um it kills me because i know i can think of people i know who um shame them no

00:33:28.109 --> 00:33:30.989
i but i'm like i know they're badder than yeah and

00:33:30.989 --> 00:33:33.889
i saw i'm like and but they're too fixated like i want to win by

00:33:33.889 --> 00:33:36.629
this way yeah yeah they feel like they have

00:33:36.629 --> 00:33:39.369
to um because i know who you're talking about

00:33:39.369 --> 00:33:44.769
they feel like they have to uh they need to win by submission rather and then

00:33:44.769 --> 00:33:50.969
give up their ability to win just win in general um yeah we because we've talked

00:33:50.969 --> 00:33:54.889
about this specific scenario too and we see this more than just the one but

00:33:54.889 --> 00:33:57.769
yeah we've definitely discussed one ad nauseam, so.

00:33:57.829 --> 00:34:00.349
Yeah, because they're a very talented person. Yes. And you're like,

00:34:00.409 --> 00:34:01.549
I know you're better than that.

00:34:02.131 --> 00:34:07.111
But that's also a skill that also shows you can beat somebody technically more

00:34:07.111 --> 00:34:09.951
sound than you if you're a more effective competitor.

00:34:10.531 --> 00:34:14.891
And a lot of that game is the mental aspect of it. You know, imagine that.

00:34:15.451 --> 00:34:19.371
Have I beat that dead horse? No, let's keep beating it. No, it makes sense.

00:34:21.891 --> 00:34:25.611
I've told my guys this a lot of times too. It's just basically like if you're

00:34:25.611 --> 00:34:29.131
more prepared for that environment, someone can be, like you said,

00:34:29.231 --> 00:34:32.171
I've seen countless, I mean, I've been in situations like this where I'm like,

00:34:32.271 --> 00:34:33.931
I'm better than that guy, but he just beat my ass.

00:34:34.091 --> 00:34:38.691
Yeah. Because he ultimately came more prepared. Or maybe his plan was better to implement.

00:34:38.791 --> 00:34:42.551
He just could have been in a better mental, physical state, but you name it.

00:34:42.731 --> 00:34:46.591
But yeah, like if you have a plan and you're comfortable and you're going to

00:34:46.591 --> 00:34:50.451
implement it in that environment, like that's, because this is a game at the

00:34:50.451 --> 00:34:53.391
end of the day, right? Like skills obviously are a huge part of the game.

00:34:54.451 --> 00:34:58.971
And if you're, no, I think I said like a plan, comfort, and you can execute it.

00:34:59.411 --> 00:35:05.531
Like if you can do that this other person may have a broader swath of really

00:35:05.531 --> 00:35:09.811
high level tools in the toolkit but if they can't pull that into the five minutes

00:35:09.811 --> 00:35:13.731
of your match like and you can like you can be a blue belt and if you're,

00:35:14.464 --> 00:35:18.224
a black belt in the competition like in that comp psychologist the ability to

00:35:18.224 --> 00:35:21.924
execute i'm just using analogies right like yeah you guys get what i'm saying

00:35:21.924 --> 00:35:25.984
like you go up against a purple or brown belt who like is better in quotes but

00:35:25.984 --> 00:35:29.284
they can't execute like you're this is a game this is like.

00:35:29.824 --> 00:35:34.664
In my experience having like just gone out and kind of done the work that we're

00:35:34.664 --> 00:35:39.844
talking about here um out in the field um that was one of the big takeaways

00:35:39.844 --> 00:35:41.984
i had was like that i tell my guys all the time that I'm like,

00:35:42.164 --> 00:35:45.184
competition in a game is different than the training room.

00:35:45.344 --> 00:35:47.424
Like when you care, all of a sudden, like in the training room,

00:35:47.504 --> 00:35:49.684
we all kind of care, but like a lot of times we're also kind of playing around

00:35:49.684 --> 00:35:52.404
a little bit. Oh, you know, I'll just roll to my back. No big deal.

00:35:52.564 --> 00:35:57.664
Like when you have those behaviors in that like really calm environment of a

00:35:57.664 --> 00:36:01.084
training room and then you don't know how to toggle switch that.

00:36:01.224 --> 00:36:02.884
And like, if you make a decision just to do what I just talked about,

00:36:02.884 --> 00:36:03.784
you just gave up two points.

00:36:04.004 --> 00:36:08.544
Just like this, the frame of mind changes. I have to be present in a game now.

00:36:08.964 --> 00:36:11.924
And some people are really good. I, i'll say wrestlers

00:36:11.924 --> 00:36:14.924
because like wrestlers have by the time a wrestling a wrestler

00:36:14.924 --> 00:36:18.384
comes into like a jiu-jitsu room you've had hundreds exactly

00:36:18.384 --> 00:36:21.164
exactly so you know how to do that that's why like wrestlers are

00:36:21.164 --> 00:36:24.244
so anytime like i'm sure you guys see if you guys see a new like dude walk

00:36:24.244 --> 00:36:26.824
in he's like a trial class student like a wrestler like all right cool can he is he

00:36:26.824 --> 00:36:30.304
a good dude can we get him a train with us because that's going to be a major asset because

00:36:30.304 --> 00:36:32.904
of those things like that that um they just know how

00:36:32.904 --> 00:36:35.964
to compete yeah they know how to compete in by themselves like people

00:36:35.964 --> 00:36:39.064
can come from all kinds of other sports team environments it's different yeah

00:36:39.064 --> 00:36:41.784
you got to go out and do it yourself like it's the diff it's a skill

00:36:41.784 --> 00:36:47.184
set that i mean obviously wrestling is uniquely um in our similar worlds brings

00:36:47.184 --> 00:36:54.304
a tremendous skill set for that yeah now and i mean that's kind of the cool

00:36:54.304 --> 00:36:59.164
thing i've also sort of embraced about jiu-jitsu is um so growing up wrestling.

00:36:59.953 --> 00:37:02.833
I mean, everything's competition. It's a competition base. Now you're seeing

00:37:02.833 --> 00:37:04.493
it because at jiu-jitsu schools, we'll have wrestling. I mean,

00:37:04.513 --> 00:37:07.433
I teach a little basic wrestling class, and guys can kind of learn and have fun.

00:37:07.553 --> 00:37:10.353
You're trying to spread the love of the sport to people.

00:37:10.493 --> 00:37:14.133
But in general, from day one, you're preparing for a competition,

00:37:14.133 --> 00:37:17.413
and then you're being pushed into a competition, and you're experiencing getting

00:37:17.413 --> 00:37:20.093
your ass kicked or kicking someone's ass or both.

00:37:20.273 --> 00:37:28.373
And like it or not, even if you never get good, you are repeated exposure to that situation.

00:37:29.353 --> 00:37:32.873
And actually, it's an interesting point with that arousal again.

00:37:34.116 --> 00:37:41.176
Because um so like anxiety disorders right to pull my clinical psychology background so um.

00:37:42.336 --> 00:37:45.356
Uh a lot of times there's an avoidance response people

00:37:45.356 --> 00:37:48.056
want to avoid something that's causing exactly you know anxiety is

00:37:48.056 --> 00:37:50.856
unpleasant feelings so it'll trigger an avoidance response so like

00:37:50.856 --> 00:37:53.596
we'll take a simple phobia for an essence i'm

00:37:53.596 --> 00:37:56.496
afraid of spiders i'm gonna walk away from the spider okay and

00:37:56.496 --> 00:37:59.556
it takes away the bad feeling that's what's called negative reinforcement in

00:37:59.556 --> 00:38:02.376
operational conditioning throw in some psych stuff

00:38:02.376 --> 00:38:05.456
i like it um good negative reinforcement

00:38:05.456 --> 00:38:08.836
not punishment people in vernacular misplaced that it's taking

00:38:08.836 --> 00:38:12.636
away an aversive stimulus anyways um you really

00:38:12.636 --> 00:38:15.376
want to get over anxiety for the

00:38:15.376 --> 00:38:18.596
most part it's exposing yourself to the anxious the the

00:38:18.596 --> 00:38:22.336
um the stimulus provoking that anxiety because

00:38:22.336 --> 00:38:25.676
it then you learn to adapt to it because essentially it's triggering

00:38:25.676 --> 00:38:28.396
that fight or flight you know something's telling you like this is

00:38:28.396 --> 00:38:31.256
threatening but really if you lean into those

00:38:31.256 --> 00:38:35.756
thoughts then you're you adapt so in essence so that's a big thing like i've

00:38:35.756 --> 00:38:40.436
with parents you know who don't want to expose their kids to unpleasant feelings

00:38:40.436 --> 00:38:44.316
you're setting those kids up for an anxiety disorder later in life because they

00:38:44.316 --> 00:38:49.456
never learn how to cope they never learn how to lean into negative feelings

00:38:49.456 --> 00:38:50.756
that they can master them.

00:38:51.856 --> 00:38:55.836
So it plays right back into this competition thing.

00:38:56.576 --> 00:39:01.156
You want to learn how to master those negative feelings that then you have to

00:39:01.156 --> 00:39:03.456
just expose yourself to it and then maybe have a plan.

00:39:05.316 --> 00:39:09.556
And it all plays in together, but crap, I had another thought.

00:39:09.956 --> 00:39:13.496
Oh, but the learning, the training environment, there's sort of a different

00:39:13.496 --> 00:39:16.016
orientation, or at least there should be if you want to get good.

00:39:16.256 --> 00:39:21.816
It should be more of a process orientation rather than sort of you know, win-loss.

00:39:21.996 --> 00:39:28.956
And that's the time, and this is, I think, also growing up as an athlete, I'm grateful.

00:39:29.116 --> 00:39:32.476
I think I'm good at this, Mike, can tell you or not. But the...

00:39:33.468 --> 00:39:36.988
You work on your things you're bad at like it is a time where losing it doesn't

00:39:36.988 --> 00:39:41.968
really matter it doesn't matter at all so um you know that's the time that you

00:39:41.968 --> 00:39:43.448
should be focused on like competing

00:39:43.448 --> 00:39:47.988
against yourself in essence that am i getting better at a thing so.

00:39:48.948 --> 00:39:51.968
If we're gonna go deep into it too um now i'm

00:39:51.968 --> 00:39:54.948
a middle-aged guy sometimes i like to just come in and goof off or whatever

00:39:54.948 --> 00:39:57.808
with my buddies um but if i'm focused on

00:39:57.808 --> 00:40:00.568
getting better i will have a like just the other

00:40:00.568 --> 00:40:03.528
day i actually was struggling with thinking

00:40:03.528 --> 00:40:06.508
about something to work on so i asked mike mike what should i work on he said

00:40:06.508 --> 00:40:09.828
half garden or deep half entries yeah because you had you

00:40:09.828 --> 00:40:12.988
had told me you wanted to work on um yeah i want to i want to add deep half

00:40:12.988 --> 00:40:16.948
to my game i was like okay well let's work on being in deep half yeah it was

00:40:16.948 --> 00:40:21.588
like brilliant really so yeah it was just i think of that but like so the rest

00:40:21.588 --> 00:40:25.388
of practice that was just the goal that's so sometimes Sometimes I didn't get

00:40:25.388 --> 00:40:27.108
it, sometimes I always got it, whatever.

00:40:27.788 --> 00:40:33.468
But if people coming in and treating those roles as a match,

00:40:33.728 --> 00:40:38.128
where it's win-lose, they're robbing themselves of the ability for a learning experience.

00:40:38.428 --> 00:40:41.228
And it's just getting it all ass backward.

00:40:41.508 --> 00:40:43.808
That said, if you're in a competition, though, and you're like,

00:40:43.908 --> 00:40:46.388
oh, I'm just, you know, I'm going to learn, that's the time to,

00:40:46.488 --> 00:40:48.968
no, now it's the time to win. A little bit of a gear shift. Yeah.

00:40:49.568 --> 00:40:54.068
It's a different mental set. So you need both mindsets, depending on what you're

00:40:54.068 --> 00:40:57.208
doing. But yeah, I'm rambling now.

00:40:57.708 --> 00:41:02.708
When do you think, just from like a openness standpoint to it,

00:41:02.808 --> 00:41:04.348
like mental openness to it.

00:41:05.256 --> 00:41:10.796
Once we've gotten through, because some of this is the coach's job to help with

00:41:10.796 --> 00:41:16.136
the learning experience, but once we've gotten through the match,

00:41:16.276 --> 00:41:19.216
and let's say in this case the person's lost.

00:41:20.196 --> 00:41:29.796
Is there a specific window that is the better time at which to review those losses?

00:41:29.796 --> 00:41:32.736
Like is there like is there a too early is

00:41:32.736 --> 00:41:35.776
there and is there a too late like when should we look back i

00:41:35.776 --> 00:41:40.176
can't think of any research i'm pulling on to think about that but intuitively i'm

00:41:40.176 --> 00:41:43.636
sure i mean mike you grew up wrestling it seems like every wrestling coach as

00:41:43.636 --> 00:41:46.376
soon as you're off the mat wants to go over like six moves i'm like i just want

00:41:46.376 --> 00:41:50.416
to sit down and like drink a gatorade like i i don't even remember what the

00:41:50.416 --> 00:41:55.636
hell happened like i'm not interested um so i i just have so many memories of

00:41:55.636 --> 00:41:59.276
that i'm like i don't remember anything that we just talked about Um, but that's me.

00:41:59.396 --> 00:42:01.896
That might be individual. There might be people who can absorb it right away.

00:42:02.076 --> 00:42:05.876
I don't, I don't know. Um, I know for myself, it's probably not until after

00:42:05.876 --> 00:42:07.356
the competition, frankly.

00:42:07.656 --> 00:42:12.496
Um, unless there's something serious. I mean, so there's most things in life.

00:42:12.676 --> 00:42:16.976
It's not an either or it's a both and, I would say like most things.

00:42:17.376 --> 00:42:21.636
Um, so, you know, if it's something that immediately after a match,

00:42:21.736 --> 00:42:24.456
you notice they're, I don't know, just pick something more wrestling or their

00:42:24.456 --> 00:42:27.496
stance was too high, that might be a time like, cause it's an easy fix.

00:42:27.956 --> 00:42:29.416
Like, just lower your stance.

00:42:30.576 --> 00:42:33.796
But if it's something complex, like, I'm going to teach you a whole new freaking

00:42:33.796 --> 00:42:35.776
takedown, not time. Yeah.

00:42:37.176 --> 00:42:41.956
Not time to master it. Yeah, I don't know if I have anything more intelligent to say.

00:42:42.216 --> 00:42:44.476
No, that's fine. It kind of depends on the individual. Yeah,

00:42:44.576 --> 00:42:45.376
it depends on the individual.

00:42:45.796 --> 00:42:48.156
A lot of things. You kind of got to, you know, it's interesting.

00:42:48.316 --> 00:42:49.416
So, I've become friends.

00:42:49.616 --> 00:42:51.736
So, actually, he's not the Campbell's wrestling coach anymore,

00:42:51.756 --> 00:42:54.716
but he's at the National Wrestling Coaches Association.

00:42:54.916 --> 00:42:59.016
This guy, Scotty Sentez, a really good dude. was all American and,

00:42:59.845 --> 00:43:05.445
Getting to know him as a booster of the program still and just been friends with them.

00:43:05.625 --> 00:43:08.925
He was telling me his approach to coaching different guys.

00:43:09.125 --> 00:43:11.185
And it was just interesting hearing him. I didn't ask him about this,

00:43:11.245 --> 00:43:14.005
but he said, well, you know, so-and-so, he likes before a match.

00:43:14.125 --> 00:43:18.365
He needs me there, like totally encouraging him, like pumping him up, blah, blah, blah.

00:43:18.685 --> 00:43:21.045
He's like, that guy, he doesn't want me anywhere near him.

00:43:21.765 --> 00:43:26.745
Like, he's like, leave me alone. I'm in my head. And this other guy's over here taking a nap.

00:43:27.045 --> 00:43:30.425
You know, so you really got to, that's me. yeah that's

00:43:30.425 --> 00:43:34.005
how i'm like john get up um as you

00:43:34.005 --> 00:43:37.305
like to joke i'm trying to become instagram buddies with like competition

00:43:37.305 --> 00:43:41.205
as i'm walking out yeah yeah he he does disarm

00:43:41.205 --> 00:43:44.925
the it's he he's like performing psychological

00:43:44.925 --> 00:43:48.865
warfare in the bullpen where he's like hanging out with the guy he's like trying

00:43:48.865 --> 00:43:53.585
to exchange numbers with them like i'm an extroverted guy so i can't help myself

00:43:53.585 --> 00:43:58.005
like you said you like to feel happy yeah like calm like it was just a jujitsu

00:43:58.005 --> 00:44:01.465
tournament he talks with the guy the whole tries to talk to the guy the whole way.

00:44:02.339 --> 00:44:06.479
If that guy will listen. I didn't notice that. I felt bad because it was the finals of Worlds.

00:44:06.659 --> 00:44:10.799
And it was a super good dude. We're Instagram buddies now. There you go. He's this French guy.

00:44:12.059 --> 00:44:16.299
And I was coming out. I was like, oh, let me try my like five words of French.

00:44:16.419 --> 00:44:19.919
And now I'm talking about, I realized, I was like, oh, I'm reading social cues.

00:44:20.039 --> 00:44:22.559
Like he wants to be in his own. I was like, I'm sorry, man.

00:44:22.759 --> 00:44:25.179
No, but it's okay. Because this is the finals of Worlds.

00:44:26.099 --> 00:44:31.379
There are no, there's no, there's, once they pick you up out of the bullpen, it's fair game, baby.

00:44:32.259 --> 00:44:34.339
It's not something I'm trying to mess with them. I'm just like,

00:44:34.379 --> 00:44:36.019
oh, cool. Like, let's have fun.

00:44:38.259 --> 00:44:40.999
But, yeah, I don't know why we're talking about that. But that said,

00:44:41.199 --> 00:44:49.039
like, I mean, when, for me personally, when the, you know, as soon as we shake hands and, I mean,

00:44:49.939 --> 00:44:54.659
how I function, how I like, I do mentally, it's purposeful. I flip a switch.

00:44:54.919 --> 00:44:58.199
You lock in. I lock in. Yeah, it's my time of like, that works for me.

00:44:58.199 --> 00:45:03.619
Like, I can't be there leading up because I'll be too amped up, but I have it.

00:45:03.999 --> 00:45:07.219
And I mean, I have my ritual. Usually I take a step back, jump,

00:45:07.459 --> 00:45:09.259
bounce once or twice, and then I'm at it.

00:45:09.399 --> 00:45:12.259
Yeah. And that's where you sort of access the dark side of yourself. You're kind of saving.

00:45:12.439 --> 00:45:15.299
Like, you're like saving the juice for when you're like, I've got this. Yeah.

00:45:15.359 --> 00:45:19.179
I'm five minutes about to go, and I want all of my effort concentrated into

00:45:19.179 --> 00:45:20.759
this five minutes so I can do the best job possible.

00:45:20.859 --> 00:45:23.639
Yeah. And that works for me. It makes sense, man.

00:45:23.859 --> 00:45:27.079
Well, I mean, you see a lot of guys that flip the switch early.

00:45:27.079 --> 00:45:30.459
Like they're the second they're in the bullpen they're exhausted they're angry

00:45:30.459 --> 00:45:33.959
and then like yeah those guys tend to have the adrenaline dump like super early

00:45:33.959 --> 00:45:38.759
you can't maintain that like that you will mentally exhaust yourself before

00:45:38.759 --> 00:45:41.739
you've even stepped on the mat and then by the time it gets you like god damn

00:45:41.739 --> 00:45:43.319
I'm tired I don't want to be here,

00:45:43.939 --> 00:45:47.999
I need to flip my switch sooner for me I like to go out.

00:45:49.016 --> 00:45:52.376
Excited to be out there like excited to perform and

00:45:52.376 --> 00:45:55.336
um which is actually interesting so

00:45:55.336 --> 00:45:59.076
there's this other theory uh what's it called goal orientation

00:45:59.076 --> 00:46:03.216
theory um that you

00:46:03.216 --> 00:46:06.196
know when you engage in something you could sort of be task

00:46:06.196 --> 00:46:08.976
focused or process hostess doing things or kind

00:46:08.976 --> 00:46:12.876
of ego focused okay so ego focused is like or i

00:46:12.876 --> 00:46:16.056
think they also better show it a competency like competency

00:46:16.056 --> 00:46:18.896
demonstration like essentially you're showing off like a

00:46:18.896 --> 00:46:21.616
time to like it's it's to display your skills for your

00:46:21.616 --> 00:46:28.916
skills i am you need both um in a competitive match that i like to switch to

00:46:28.916 --> 00:46:34.776
an ego focus like it is time like i and this might be too revealing too much

00:46:34.776 --> 00:46:39.296
of my own psych with this but i i want to beat the person in front of their family i want yeah yeah.

00:46:40.536 --> 00:46:43.416
I want to show off. I want to do that.

00:46:43.856 --> 00:46:48.016
But it's access, and it's not how it doesn't reflect my value system day to

00:46:48.016 --> 00:46:49.696
day. Like, I have no ill will to the person.

00:46:50.036 --> 00:46:53.396
But that's the mental state. I need to be that to perform.

00:46:54.499 --> 00:46:57.379
My optimum so i'm accessing that side

00:46:57.379 --> 00:47:00.619
and it does help being a psychologist i think you're tapping into

00:47:00.619 --> 00:47:03.579
your dark side of the force yeah so you know so actually so

00:47:03.579 --> 00:47:06.319
freud going back him you know comfort so he

00:47:06.319 --> 00:47:09.099
said he had this it's so psychology is

00:47:09.099 --> 00:47:11.859
interesting there's like more research oriented ones and there's kind of this more

00:47:11.859 --> 00:47:15.039
philosophical type so he had these kind of two forces

00:47:15.039 --> 00:47:17.939
you know the eros and the thanatos not the

00:47:17.939 --> 00:47:20.679
thanos don't confuse it with that no the eros is

00:47:20.679 --> 00:47:24.239
more like the creative and loving aspects whatever and the thanatos

00:47:24.239 --> 00:47:27.539
is like the death instinct and the aggression and the destruction and

00:47:27.539 --> 00:47:30.499
so jung his student might have called it more the shadow side

00:47:30.499 --> 00:47:33.279
or something like that so you are accessing the dark side

00:47:33.279 --> 00:47:36.239
of yourself and that's okay there's our there's a wrestler who's one of the

00:47:36.239 --> 00:47:40.659
top in the country right now at i think 65 kilograms you might know um austin

00:47:40.659 --> 00:47:44.539
asanto yeah he's a couple time all-american for i mean you see him could be

00:47:44.539 --> 00:47:48.559
he's emotional when he competes he's angry he's emotional he's kind of a dick

00:47:48.559 --> 00:47:53.159
but it works well um another guy Parker Katkaisen,

00:47:53.850 --> 00:47:56.570
is well known for being just so chill like that.

00:47:56.770 --> 00:48:01.830
So again, it's knowing what works for you and finding what works for yourself.

00:48:02.010 --> 00:48:05.610
And so it's not like an either or, like you have to go in and just have fun.

00:48:05.790 --> 00:48:08.970
Some people might. Some people might need to be reminded, like, have fun.

00:48:09.470 --> 00:48:14.910
Like, enjoy. Like, this is your time to perform. Some people might be like, dude.

00:48:15.230 --> 00:48:17.630
Kill him. Kill him. You need to go kill him. Yeah. Yeah.

00:48:18.950 --> 00:48:22.530
No, I get it. Anyways, anything else? Yeah.

00:48:23.010 --> 00:48:27.070
Sorry. Any more psych questions before I have listeners' questions?

00:48:27.390 --> 00:48:31.370
Do we have any? Man, that was really good stuff, John. That was super interesting.

00:48:31.970 --> 00:48:34.170
I almost feel like I need to click my, I was trying to listen.

00:48:34.870 --> 00:48:36.490
Like, I'm getting the psychologist to talk to him.

00:48:37.370 --> 00:48:40.590
Dude, I'm loving it. I didn't mean to be like rambling. No, no, no.

00:48:40.750 --> 00:48:44.110
No, you kidding me? It was great. That's why we're here. We're here to hear what you have to say.

00:48:44.210 --> 00:48:47.510
Let's definitely get to the questions in a second, but I feel like I do have

00:48:47.510 --> 00:48:49.990
questions for John after all that. You can ask your questions first.

00:48:50.590 --> 00:48:54.530
We're here. Maybe it's reactions. I don't know. it does make sense like especially

00:48:54.530 --> 00:48:57.550
like that that last bit right i've i've i've had tournaments where,

00:48:58.550 --> 00:49:01.470
um you know you got me thinking about my kind of like reflecting on

00:49:01.470 --> 00:49:04.570
my own process so like i've talked to guys who

00:49:04.570 --> 00:49:09.690
um talk to my students who who put it this way you you made a couple comments

00:49:09.690 --> 00:49:13.930
i guess i'll kind of respond to one of them was the your your buddy the coach

00:49:13.930 --> 00:49:18.490
scotty something or that guy who had like he's like dude i know what this one

00:49:18.490 --> 00:49:20.710
athlete needs and what this athlete needs a little bit different there's other

00:49:20.710 --> 00:49:21.870
guys kind of in between or whatever,

00:49:22.410 --> 00:49:27.190
I've talked to students who really like having me around like hey like I'm gonna

00:49:27.190 --> 00:49:32.150
go do this can you come please like it so it's evident that like they want some type of presence right.

00:49:33.310 --> 00:49:36.990
I say all that to say some of my best performances have been like when I just go off on my own,

00:49:37.673 --> 00:49:42.093
Yeah. So that might be what you have learned for yourself. Maybe. Or like, yeah.

00:49:42.573 --> 00:49:47.733
To me, I feel like it's like when I go, because I've gone in lots of times where

00:49:47.733 --> 00:49:51.093
I've competed alongside the team and I get like maybe just kind of drawn out

00:49:51.093 --> 00:49:53.753
of my, where I need to be mentally as an athlete.

00:49:53.893 --> 00:49:56.393
And I kind of focus a bit more on everyone else to be like, all right,

00:49:56.453 --> 00:49:59.373
like, because I'm in the position, I'm a coach, but I'm also an athlete,

00:49:59.453 --> 00:50:00.853
but it's kind of tough for me to do both.

00:50:01.633 --> 00:50:06.713
So I kind of defer to coaching a little bit more because I get paid to do it. Potential capacity.

00:50:07.093 --> 00:50:11.813
Think about it. It's limited. It's not unlimited. You don't have unlimited amount of attention to give.

00:50:12.273 --> 00:50:17.933
So that would be extremely difficult to both be competing where it's inherently selfish.

00:50:18.133 --> 00:50:22.573
You're focusing on yourself and coaching, which is inherently giving of others.

00:50:22.753 --> 00:50:25.753
Yep. You know, so that would be, I mean, I don't think I could do it.

00:50:25.873 --> 00:50:29.133
I wouldn't want to do it. It's been difficult, but sometimes I can do it well.

00:50:29.433 --> 00:50:31.133
Yeah, it's like, it's tough to like get my— Do you hear that,

00:50:31.233 --> 00:50:33.853
Scott students? You're getting in the way of his success. Yeah, get out of the way.

00:50:34.093 --> 00:50:37.513
You're making him worse. You're barriers to success. But, but like,

00:50:37.613 --> 00:50:38.553
it's just, it's fascinating, right?

00:50:38.573 --> 00:50:42.113
Because some of my, like I've, a lot of the, some of my better performers have

00:50:42.113 --> 00:50:45.193
been where I've just solely just focused on just, I'm just going to go do this thing.

00:50:45.573 --> 00:50:47.493
I just, this is what I'm going to do. There's no other distractions.

00:50:47.813 --> 00:50:50.233
Like just, I'm just going to lock in on this and this is what I'm doing.

00:50:50.393 --> 00:50:53.273
So, and it could just be that, like you think, I think what you said that makes

00:50:53.273 --> 00:50:55.133
the most sense, or it's like, it's a challenge. Like, I got to,

00:50:55.213 --> 00:50:57.433
I want to get locked in, but like, I got five guys.

00:50:57.693 --> 00:50:59.873
One of them has never done it before. Two of them have. And you know,

00:50:59.933 --> 00:51:01.973
like, let me, let me take care of them. That's kind of like what I get paid

00:51:01.973 --> 00:51:04.273
to do. So to me, I'm also like, man, I...

00:51:05.004 --> 00:51:08.144
You're a professional coach. Yeah, man. Yeah, exactly. So I'm going to defer

00:51:08.144 --> 00:51:11.864
to that first and foremost, and then whatever's left, I can do my own.

00:51:11.964 --> 00:51:15.204
And, like, I've done fine, but a lot of times it's just not my best.

00:51:15.424 --> 00:51:19.544
So, anyways, it resonates in a lot of ways.

00:51:19.664 --> 00:51:21.884
It's like, dude, the rest of it I'll have to think about more,

00:51:21.964 --> 00:51:25.464
too. I think I kind of like getting into I need to kill this person mode, too. Yeah.

00:51:25.864 --> 00:51:30.504
It's a bad one. And it's not like it's really not until, and it's not even kill.

00:51:31.244 --> 00:51:34.324
I'm having a lot of fun with it. i i i

00:51:34.324 --> 00:51:38.224
this this is i mean it's a level of killer

00:51:38.224 --> 00:51:42.044
instinct no it's like i said i want to beat them in front of their family yeah

00:51:42.044 --> 00:51:46.304
yeah i'm gonna put that in the world of the i'm gonna go yeah yeah whatever

00:51:46.304 --> 00:51:50.364
that's a better it's a dark we're saying the same thing but i don't yeah we

00:51:50.364 --> 00:51:55.084
no no we're saying it differently we're saying i know i know what you mean though where it's like,

00:51:55.764 --> 00:51:58.484
we gotta i want to show and i

00:51:58.484 --> 00:52:01.184
want to be happy doing yeah we put so much work in this

00:52:01.184 --> 00:52:03.984
we go what we do like what we do puts our body at risk all

00:52:03.984 --> 00:52:06.764
the damn time like we sacrifice so much so this is the fun part

00:52:06.764 --> 00:52:09.764
let's go do it let's go put out our best man like i've

00:52:09.764 --> 00:52:12.724
i want everyone to see how well i've done how much work i've

00:52:12.724 --> 00:52:15.384
fucking done for this many years man like this is it this is

00:52:15.384 --> 00:52:18.164
my minutes this is my five minutes that was my junior college when

00:52:18.164 --> 00:52:20.964
i realized that like i made the decision i'm going to have

00:52:20.964 --> 00:52:25.364
i'm happy as i step on the mat and that's it totally changed me again but you

00:52:25.364 --> 00:52:31.084
that might not be for someone else they might have to be angry or whatever or

00:52:31.084 --> 00:52:34.864
whatever thing but you need to find that optimal arousal state because again

00:52:34.864 --> 00:52:40.184
me my default was to get too amped so i needed to switch it so and it still is.

00:52:40.897 --> 00:52:46.677
Yeah. Um, just on the, the flip switch thing, normally for me,

00:52:46.757 --> 00:52:49.777
it's, I try to have it happen when I immediately step on the mat,

00:52:49.957 --> 00:52:55.337
like, and then sometimes it doesn't happen until the person like, yeah, it does. Yeah.

00:52:55.457 --> 00:52:57.677
So like, you know, it's like, all right, you know, it's like sometimes,

00:52:57.837 --> 00:53:01.977
but there's definitely been time, like, so actually, I think I never go into this.

00:53:02.337 --> 00:53:05.957
Interesting with that, like where, uh, so like worlds is the example that I'm

00:53:05.957 --> 00:53:09.177
going to use because this is probably the biggest example of it,

00:53:09.337 --> 00:53:12.657
where, you know, they have to attack me first, right?

00:53:12.777 --> 00:53:15.717
Like, they do something, and it's like, okay, now it's on. It's a fight now.

00:53:16.377 --> 00:53:21.257
So, like, there's definitely that ability to flip the switch because sometimes I'm late with it.

00:53:21.377 --> 00:53:24.817
Sometimes it's like, sometimes it's on the right time.

00:53:24.937 --> 00:53:29.577
Sometimes it's like, all right, I need, like, sometimes you need the outward force to create.

00:53:29.797 --> 00:53:32.377
Yeah, well, I think we talked about that before when we did your warm-up at

00:53:32.377 --> 00:53:33.877
Worlds because Shane had brought up.

00:53:34.357 --> 00:53:37.577
Remember we talked about this? yeah we talked about that was a really cool igniting the

00:53:37.577 --> 00:53:40.417
central nervousness about having somebody literally just like smashing on the

00:53:40.417 --> 00:53:43.097
head so a guy I've like a guy I've coached a bunch of times he's an MMA fighter

00:53:43.097 --> 00:53:47.917
as well right so he's and he's he won pans last he's a super successful jiu-jitsu

00:53:47.917 --> 00:53:51.777
fighter as well but um but his like main career focus is MMA like you're gonna

00:53:51.777 --> 00:53:53.897
get hit you're gonna get kicked and I remember him telling me we were doing

00:53:53.897 --> 00:53:56.297
his warm up uh before pans he went on to win,

00:53:56.777 --> 00:53:59.817
Mike cornered him I think in his finals match cause I was drawn into I

00:53:59.817 --> 00:54:02.897
was just coaching this time so two thumbs up for that but anyways you were coaching Andrea

00:54:02.897 --> 00:54:05.577
so I went over and you helped out with it with shane which was

00:54:05.577 --> 00:54:08.677
awesome um but after the after the

00:54:08.677 --> 00:54:11.637
he won the tournament we were like kind of just debriefing we drove up to new

00:54:11.637 --> 00:54:14.477
york and drove back so we had like a bunch of time to talk and stuff and he

00:54:14.477 --> 00:54:16.797
was like you know what actually would be a good idea because i'm always asking

00:54:16.797 --> 00:54:19.457
for like you know what can we do differently like let's let's figure out what

00:54:19.457 --> 00:54:22.817
worked what didn't work and just talk strategy like what can we do better next

00:54:22.817 --> 00:54:27.157
time and he had a cool idea which it fits with what mike's saying which is that

00:54:27.157 --> 00:54:28.277
he was like look dude like.

00:54:28.915 --> 00:54:31.415
Our warm-ups are really good for, like, just getting, like, that sweat to kind

00:54:31.415 --> 00:54:33.235
of deal with the adrenaline that's, like, right in front of us to,

00:54:33.275 --> 00:54:35.835
like, be like, all right, we're, like, have the first fight before the first

00:54:35.835 --> 00:54:37.115
fight, kind of, that's basically the idea.

00:54:37.575 --> 00:54:40.595
But he was like, can you attack me during the warm-up a little bit?

00:54:40.755 --> 00:54:43.475
And I was like, okay. He's like, I need to kind of, like, get hit a little bit.

00:54:43.475 --> 00:54:45.075
Yeah, he's an experienced competitor.

00:54:45.335 --> 00:54:50.475
He knows that he needs to ramp his arousal level up to get his optimum performance.

00:54:50.655 --> 00:54:53.935
That's how I read it in context of Yurki's Dotson line performance.

00:54:54.235 --> 00:54:57.195
He's also kind of, like you said, he's also very calm like very like smiley he

00:54:57.195 --> 00:54:59.875
was a marine by the way so it's like these are like these are dudes who kind of like i think

00:54:59.875 --> 00:55:03.115
they just yeah there's like an edge to to like yo like let's we're

00:55:03.115 --> 00:55:05.955
fighting like so but his his comment made sense he's

00:55:05.955 --> 00:55:08.935
like no like for me he's like it really the switch flips

00:55:08.935 --> 00:55:11.655
when the other dude tries to like this guy these guys are coming out to

00:55:11.655 --> 00:55:14.695
potentially hurt us right so like i need to be ready for that so like

00:55:14.695 --> 00:55:17.375
set me up for that before we go out like try to hurt me a little bit like smack my head

00:55:17.375 --> 00:55:20.455
down a little bit which is what me and mike did before his match i was like i

00:55:20.455 --> 00:55:23.255
asked mike i got mike's buy-in but i was like dude do you want to run this one

00:55:23.255 --> 00:55:25.955
like do you want to run shane's suggestion he was like yeah let's do it so i'm like all right i'm just

00:55:25.955 --> 00:55:27.935
gonna snap your head down a little bit more i'm gonna be a little more aggressive

00:55:27.935 --> 00:55:32.675
in our hand fighting in the warm-up uh i think it makes sense yeah no i i mean

00:55:32.675 --> 00:55:37.115
it did work i just used the example that was mean the the surprise is mainly

00:55:37.115 --> 00:55:40.595
because we expected a different thing that was an over preparation issue but

00:55:40.595 --> 00:55:44.855
okay but like that that like attack the the initial attack definitely like

00:55:45.275 --> 00:55:49.335
you know that's that's the the flip the flipping of the switch sometimes it's

00:55:49.335 --> 00:55:51.895
when i step on the that, though, but who knows? Well, even in the match,

00:55:51.995 --> 00:55:53.175
it's important to maintain...

00:55:54.266 --> 00:56:01.346
Not too far in either direction to be present right you gotta be yeah and so um i'm you know,

00:56:01.866 --> 00:56:05.046
some people might benefit off leading up

00:56:05.046 --> 00:56:07.686
to practicing like mindfulness meditation or something like that

00:56:07.686 --> 00:56:11.106
like i just find people who are lose awareness of

00:56:11.106 --> 00:56:13.946
their own um their own

00:56:13.946 --> 00:56:16.646
what's going on inside of them and so you see the people they

00:56:16.646 --> 00:56:20.546
get too amped up again and they're in a match and they get emotional and

00:56:20.546 --> 00:56:23.166
they start making bad decisions or you know

00:56:23.166 --> 00:56:25.986
they do something really stupid like i never got

00:56:25.986 --> 00:56:29.046
that like i understood those people um but

00:56:29.046 --> 00:56:31.866
they start making bad decisions and you know

00:56:31.866 --> 00:56:34.586
um i see in wrestling a lot of certain

00:56:34.586 --> 00:56:37.466
things like uh they don't know when to like concede a

00:56:37.466 --> 00:56:40.506
takedown and start coming up you know i mean they fight too long they

00:56:40.506 --> 00:56:43.606
get on the back so they're losing awareness of what's happening but

00:56:43.606 --> 00:56:46.346
again or they get too comfortable you know maybe they

00:56:46.346 --> 00:56:49.206
get a lead and they're getting too relaxed then and you

00:56:49.206 --> 00:56:52.086
know focus so it's maintaining that level

00:56:52.086 --> 00:56:55.706
of focus and awareness and optimal arousal level

00:56:55.706 --> 00:57:01.126
is important not just leading up but during it as well so that's um that that

00:57:01.126 --> 00:57:06.886
presence thing um i think it's a rod i think hodra gracie has a whole thing

00:57:06.886 --> 00:57:11.586
on that like champions stay present yeah that he talks about um so i mean like

00:57:11.586 --> 00:57:15.246
yeah yes well even like you know bring this to like.

00:57:16.213 --> 00:57:19.733
My soldiers with whom I work, something like that.

00:57:19.853 --> 00:57:22.893
You know, they go through, you know, I mean, you don't want to talk about high

00:57:22.893 --> 00:57:24.653
arousal levels. It's a firefight.

00:57:24.853 --> 00:57:27.113
You know, I've never been in a firefight, so I want to talk about that.

00:57:27.173 --> 00:57:28.633
But I, you know, deal with these guys.

00:57:28.833 --> 00:57:35.173
And, you know, they're practicing, they're training, they're doing so much so

00:57:35.173 --> 00:57:40.593
that the arousal level doesn't overwhelm them and they don't get the tunnel vision during it.

00:57:40.873 --> 00:57:45.513
You know, so they're prepared when they're actually in the situation to make good decisions.

00:57:46.093 --> 00:57:48.153
But again, they're not going to fall asleep. I mean, that's going to be hard

00:57:48.153 --> 00:57:51.593
to find somebody who's too relaxed as they're being shot at. But I guess in theory.

00:57:52.373 --> 00:57:55.253
So you actually might be a good person to ask about this because this is something

00:57:55.253 --> 00:57:57.593
that was said. It is related to that.

00:57:58.253 --> 00:58:02.913
It was said to me recently or someone brought up the theory recently.

00:58:03.313 --> 00:58:09.073
And this was something they had heard from someone who goes into those types

00:58:09.073 --> 00:58:14.493
of scenarios about PTSD, about post-traumatic stress disorder.

00:58:14.493 --> 00:58:17.873
And how they were saying now

00:58:17.873 --> 00:58:20.533
this is i'm not going to name the person but this is the

00:58:20.533 --> 00:58:23.953
quoting that this is the what was quoted to me um

00:58:23.953 --> 00:58:27.993
was that the ptsd specifically this

00:58:27.993 --> 00:58:31.993
is specifically in like wartime scenarios they were referring to is

00:58:31.993 --> 00:58:35.313
uh because they believe that that is due

00:58:35.313 --> 00:58:38.953
to having to be reactionary versus proactive um

00:58:38.953 --> 00:58:41.873
is what they were talking about so like not being prepared for scenario

00:58:41.873 --> 00:58:45.653
like like you're talking about here um i could see where they're going from

00:58:45.653 --> 00:58:49.033
and i would frame it this way it's too bad because a lot of these terms get

00:58:49.033 --> 00:58:54.973
overused overthrown or but let's let's take a step backwards and what do we

00:58:54.973 --> 00:58:59.793
even mean so let's even just define trauma like what what is a trauma so a trauma.

00:59:00.882 --> 00:59:04.242
Something that like overwhelms your coping mechanisms in

00:59:04.242 --> 00:59:07.922
the moment so it's not in handling something

00:59:07.922 --> 00:59:10.822
hard that you have to have to overcome but it kind of overwhelms it

00:59:10.822 --> 00:59:16.402
and then it less these kind of echoes kind of happen so having worked with many

00:59:16.402 --> 00:59:21.742
combat vets uh it gets really complex because unless some of these guys have

00:59:21.742 --> 00:59:26.442
pre um let's say pre-mortals so pre-existing sort of other issues that are brought

00:59:26.442 --> 00:59:29.442
out but let's just take something clean and there's this like,

00:59:30.203 --> 00:59:36.863
terrible situation a lot of these guys downrange in combat situations specifically they spend,

00:59:38.323 --> 00:59:42.463
months during the peak let's say the peak of peak of combat not now but like

00:59:42.463 --> 00:59:48.703
when we were really running and gunning as a as a country um you have a combat

00:59:48.703 --> 00:59:53.983
patrol like every day we'll say that you know you've seen a buddy die yesterday

00:59:53.983 --> 00:59:56.423
you're back on mission today,

00:59:57.083 --> 00:59:59.223
Something like that. I mean, those are real stories that happen.

01:00:01.663 --> 01:00:07.963
Think about those cortisol levels spiked for so long. So that arousal level,

01:00:08.203 --> 01:00:13.643
that sort of mechanism of fight or flight, gets hijacked a bit, gets reset.

01:00:13.863 --> 01:00:18.723
And so what you see is one of the core symptoms of what's called hypervigilance

01:00:18.723 --> 01:00:25.423
when they come back. And so they are excessively vigilant or watchful for stimuli

01:00:25.423 --> 01:00:28.723
in the environment that trigger like that response.

01:00:29.083 --> 01:00:32.783
And so there's a patient of mine back when I was a clinician.

01:00:33.763 --> 01:00:38.423
He was a Marine. He had done, you know, this was when IEDs were a big thing.

01:00:38.803 --> 01:00:43.043
He was back and like he went, was pulling some sort of duty as an MP or something like that.

01:00:43.503 --> 01:00:47.443
Um, and he's telling a story, there's like some drunk guy he's got in the back,

01:00:47.683 --> 01:00:52.123
and he's in the front, and then somebody's driving the car, and there was a

01:00:52.123 --> 01:00:53.323
bag of trash at the side of the road.

01:00:53.403 --> 01:00:56.403
He freaked out, jerked the wheel, said the drunk guy's like flipping out.

01:00:56.963 --> 01:01:00.923
But he, it was like right back, it's an IED, you gotta go.

01:01:01.063 --> 01:01:05.123
He was a camp legend. Yeah, yeah, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it.

01:01:05.963 --> 01:01:07.503
But it was in his brain. It was in his brain.

01:01:08.663 --> 01:01:12.443
Now, what are protective mechanisms, so one, some of these are just unavoidable

01:01:12.443 --> 01:01:13.683
because those are such extreme.

01:01:14.575 --> 01:01:18.635
Circumstances. Circumstances, but like what the military tries to do,

01:01:18.815 --> 01:01:22.275
and I don't think it's just they've been doing this wonderful,

01:01:22.575 --> 01:01:27.695
is what a psychologist would call almost like stress inoculation training or so.

01:01:27.915 --> 01:01:32.875
So, through their training, through hard circumstances, developing the ability

01:01:32.875 --> 01:01:38.635
to cope with stress, in essence, and to train within them the ability to make

01:01:38.635 --> 01:01:39.975
decisions under stress.

01:01:39.975 --> 01:01:43.975
So like a well-trained police officer um not

01:01:43.975 --> 01:01:46.675
to make this political a well-trained police officer doesn't draw his

01:01:46.675 --> 01:01:49.675
gun and shoot somebody you know whatever right

01:01:49.675 --> 01:01:52.455
they are making a decision in the

01:01:52.455 --> 01:01:56.055
environment based off of their training in the right so same with the soldier

01:01:56.055 --> 01:02:00.255
you know they're not opening up fire on a village because something stressful

01:02:00.255 --> 01:02:04.515
happened they have training that has felt the stress them be able to master

01:02:04.515 --> 01:02:08.695
the stress response and to make positive decisions with that So I think that's

01:02:08.695 --> 01:02:11.595
probably what I think that, yeah, that that's the, um,

01:02:11.835 --> 01:02:14.215
I think that's the pathway that they were trying to lead.

01:02:14.555 --> 01:02:17.375
The discussion was trying to go into is that stress inoculation.

01:02:17.375 --> 01:02:19.575
Cause that was at the end of the thing.

01:02:19.635 --> 01:02:23.515
That was the moral of the story is like, Hey, uh, cause we're,

01:02:23.635 --> 01:02:25.915
they were trying to apply this into jujitsu.

01:02:26.055 --> 01:02:30.415
It's Hey, instead of, instead of having to react to situations,

01:02:30.415 --> 01:02:35.195
we're going to practice already being in those situations so that we're not

01:02:35.195 --> 01:02:38.355
stressed out in real time. like, we're, we're ready.

01:02:38.595 --> 01:02:41.075
So, I mean, it's the same, same thing. I just was kind of trying to.

01:02:41.175 --> 01:02:44.995
It has an aside for people. So you answered this thing. I mean, sometimes, I mean, the.

01:02:45.876 --> 01:02:50.756
My experience with that like combat stress a lot of what was masking looking

01:02:50.756 --> 01:02:55.376
like ptsd i would call it like unresolved grief um a lot of said i mean these

01:02:55.376 --> 01:02:57.276
there's just i mean that's that's a whole,

01:02:57.876 --> 01:03:02.356
other stuff that's a whole other stuff itself so you know um i mean these kids

01:03:02.356 --> 01:03:08.756
were put in such awful circumstances and and often had to make such large decisions

01:03:08.756 --> 01:03:12.616
um and would take such ownership say if something went wrong,

01:03:13.256 --> 01:03:15.436
and they never fully like worked through that.

01:03:15.756 --> 01:03:17.976
So that's a different topic though. Yeah.

01:03:19.496 --> 01:03:23.176
Any other listener questions? Listener questions? Do it, man. Oh, yeah.

01:03:24.596 --> 01:03:29.176
So John knows these people, which is the best part. Mike, you told them it was

01:03:29.176 --> 01:03:30.436
a different psychologist. Yeah.

01:03:30.776 --> 01:03:35.016
So they were all laughing. I wasn't considered. We were gaslighting all of our

01:03:35.016 --> 01:03:41.016
training partners and telling them about, I was like, yes, I got the psychologist coming in.

01:03:42.436 --> 01:03:45.196
And then one guy is like oh you didn't ask

01:03:45.196 --> 01:03:47.856
John to come on the show and I'm like you should be

01:03:47.856 --> 01:03:50.596
a good psychologist yeah I got this other guy that we kind

01:03:50.596 --> 01:03:54.016
of lined up it's you know it's but you know like whatever guys do you have any

01:03:54.016 --> 01:03:56.736
questions there's not a lot of psychologists in combat sports I don't think

01:03:56.736 --> 01:04:00.076
I've encountered another one well actually a guy I went to grad school with

01:04:00.076 --> 01:04:05.176
maybe you should have a maybe you should specialize I mean I love being a psychologist

01:04:05.176 --> 01:04:10.496
I love psychology it doesn't tend to draw oh I see that's interesting selfless yeah Well,

01:04:10.496 --> 01:04:13.116
that's why you're a hot commodity in this, in the world you're in, man.

01:04:13.776 --> 01:04:17.396
I like it. So number one, question number one, and this guy listens.

01:04:18.336 --> 01:04:23.276
Does BJJ help strengthen the mindset and how? This is from Rock.

01:04:24.336 --> 01:04:27.176
Yes. I won't drop last names yet. So just like what I was saying,

01:04:27.376 --> 01:04:32.336
so let's separate competition and training. Okay, because we talked about competition a lot.

01:04:32.756 --> 01:04:40.416
Well, we'll touch that. that competition of facing, willingly facing a hard situation is,

01:04:40.952 --> 01:04:43.692
strengthens the mind so you're choosing to put yourself in

01:04:43.692 --> 01:04:47.292
discomfort you are going to master discomfort

01:04:47.292 --> 01:04:50.652
better when you comes in a scenario that you don't choose again

01:04:50.652 --> 01:04:53.612
that's like stress inoculation that's saying like you were

01:04:53.612 --> 01:04:56.872
prepping yourself if you've never encountered anything stressful in your life

01:04:56.872 --> 01:05:01.112
you melt as soon as that's why i say like parents who protect their kids too

01:05:01.112 --> 01:05:06.092
much from frustration um they never build frustration tolerance whereas like

01:05:06.092 --> 01:05:12.632
if they have and controlled i'm not don't go home and like make your kids frustrated with your kids.

01:05:14.212 --> 01:05:19.252
I'm doing it for you yeah yeah yeah um but that's competition but similarly

01:05:19.252 --> 01:05:24.212
in training there's a lot of things that are uncomfortable so one there's inherently

01:05:24.212 --> 01:05:28.552
humiliating i mean it is a humbling experience okay so you know i grew up wrestling

01:05:28.552 --> 01:05:32.112
i i was fairly successful in wrestling um and,

01:05:32.760 --> 01:05:35.820
You know, do you change the rule set a little bit in grappling?

01:05:35.880 --> 01:05:38.400
It's like, wow, you know, I just got choked. What happened?

01:05:38.680 --> 01:05:43.160
You know, I just got this. You know, there's a choice in this made.

01:05:43.280 --> 01:05:48.180
Do I only do the good things or do I sort of dive into this and weigh in and

01:05:48.180 --> 01:05:51.040
sort of face that frustration? Because sometimes it's frustrating.

01:05:51.180 --> 01:05:53.260
Like, why am I not getting this move or whatever?

01:05:53.740 --> 01:05:57.740
But by embracing that frustration, you are mentally tougher. That's true.

01:05:57.920 --> 01:06:01.380
And it's just tiring sometimes. so yeah by will

01:06:01.380 --> 01:06:05.340
willingly choosing discomfort um you

01:06:05.340 --> 01:06:08.660
create mental toughness that's a that's a fact that's well backed

01:06:08.660 --> 01:06:17.160
by science hell yeah science bitch um next question a lot of these the next

01:06:17.160 --> 01:06:23.300
uh four are from the same person from aj which my answer for all of his questions

01:06:23.300 --> 01:06:25.380
is to come to class, but, uh.

01:06:26.460 --> 01:06:34.100
And question number one, how do I shift my perspective from I lost to I learned during tough roles?

01:06:34.300 --> 01:06:39.340
Uh, so, you know, I guess the, what, what, uh, I guess mental.

01:06:39.800 --> 01:06:42.840
So there's a lot of things right here. And so,

01:06:43.644 --> 01:06:46.584
Let me unpack this one a little bit, because there's a simple answer,

01:06:46.724 --> 01:06:50.824
but there's more complex. So, I lost.

01:06:52.084 --> 01:06:56.644
Inherently within that, there's a lot of messages. So, taking a cognitive psychology

01:06:56.644 --> 01:07:01.364
perspective, coming with therapy, which tastes like there's all these thoughts coming recently.

01:07:01.544 --> 01:07:04.404
You're evaluating a situation. They sort of draw. You dig down,

01:07:04.524 --> 01:07:07.784
and they draw from some deeper held beliefs about self-wold and others.

01:07:08.004 --> 01:07:12.524
That's an incentive to use a Beckian model to be. Of course, yes.

01:07:15.704 --> 01:07:18.864
Um essentially i'm going to simplify that like that sort

01:07:18.864 --> 01:07:21.644
of threat to your we'll use the

01:07:21.644 --> 01:07:24.464
word ego or your identity you know where it hurts you

01:07:24.464 --> 01:07:27.184
know that's essentially that we'll take a different sort

01:07:27.184 --> 01:07:30.484
of approach this narrative the story we tell about ourselves so we all tell

01:07:30.484 --> 01:07:34.164
these stories about ourselves right we're inherently meaning-making creatures

01:07:34.164 --> 01:07:39.244
and so um i'm you know it's okay if i wander a little bit yeah we're inherently

01:07:39.244 --> 01:07:44.784
meaning-making creatures And part of who we are and how we organize our experiences

01:07:44.784 --> 01:07:46.744
that we have through life and tell these stories,

01:07:46.904 --> 01:07:48.964
you know, we are storytellers as a species.

01:07:49.304 --> 01:07:53.464
And what's interesting is what, that we choose the stories we choose to tell ourselves, right?

01:07:53.644 --> 01:07:59.044
So if I asked you about yourself, it's impossible for you to relay every detail of your life.

01:07:59.204 --> 01:08:03.004
You are picking and choosing, and it fits this narrative. So which plays into

01:08:03.004 --> 01:08:06.324
identity, which has been totally mistalked about in popular culture,

01:08:06.484 --> 01:08:10.804
because identity is very fluid and changed. So identity one way can be thought

01:08:10.804 --> 01:08:12.784
of is the story we tell about ourselves, right?

01:08:13.724 --> 01:08:18.124
So what I'm hearing within that phrase is I lost is I was defeated.

01:08:18.544 --> 01:08:21.664
I'm not good enough or something like that. There's something like that.

01:08:21.824 --> 01:08:28.744
And so it's going to have to be a purposeful mental switch that you start changing

01:08:28.744 --> 01:08:33.144
that narrative around it, okay? And start realizing that that's not a useful narrative.

01:08:33.304 --> 01:08:38.104
That's not a useful way of looking at it. It does not help me achieve my goals. It is self-defeating.

01:08:38.756 --> 01:08:43.256
Okay. And that only takes by just recognizing it. Now it's not going to be a switch you flip.

01:08:43.396 --> 01:08:46.516
So it has to be a very conscious effort of working at changing that narrative

01:08:46.516 --> 01:08:47.656
and working on evaluating thoughts.

01:08:47.816 --> 01:08:51.416
And so some of it will be that mindfulness again and recognizing the thoughts

01:08:51.416 --> 01:08:53.616
sort of going on and an emotion could be a trigger to that.

01:08:53.836 --> 01:08:58.716
So if you feel that negative emotion of like sad or defeat or anxious, that's a time to stop.

01:08:59.076 --> 01:09:02.616
Like that's a stop sign to sit and start examining what just went through my head,

01:09:02.776 --> 01:09:05.596
what sort of image or thought or message just went through

01:09:05.596 --> 01:09:09.856
your head that triggered that emotion so what i'm hearing is it was a negative

01:09:09.856 --> 01:09:15.596
self-evaluation okay you can challenge that the lucky thing is so if it is like

01:09:15.596 --> 01:09:20.336
i i'm a failure something like that that's a cognitive distortion that's a global

01:09:20.336 --> 01:09:24.556
statement that's not like reality instead changing is like.

01:09:25.379 --> 01:09:30.259
I have something to learn right now. You know, that's a switch that has to be purposeful.

01:09:30.439 --> 01:09:33.579
So like I said, I'd say, take that emotion, use it as a stop sign,

01:09:33.979 --> 01:09:37.699
evaluate what image or thought was going through your head, work on changing

01:09:37.699 --> 01:09:39.419
that narrative to something more productive.

01:09:39.619 --> 01:09:44.319
And this isn't just, you know, woo-woo, psych, feel-good shit. This is reality.

01:09:45.139 --> 01:09:50.219
You know, I mean, I believe there is an objective reality, but we perceive that

01:09:50.219 --> 01:09:54.359
objective reality imperfectly and we construct it very much.

01:09:54.359 --> 01:09:59.019
And so these is well-documented thinking patterns of like depressed people.

01:09:59.159 --> 01:10:01.679
There's a pattern in that of these cognitive distortions.

01:10:01.859 --> 01:10:06.899
They're distorting reality or anxious people. So you can actually master this,

01:10:06.999 --> 01:10:08.019
though, through these techniques.

01:10:08.239 --> 01:10:12.539
So switching it to, I would say, now going back to that goal orientation theory,

01:10:12.779 --> 01:10:16.559
that's when you switch it to a process learning and orientation,

01:10:16.619 --> 01:10:19.139
a process orientation that what did I learn?

01:10:19.279 --> 01:10:22.039
Like what can I take from this right now? and then i

01:10:22.039 --> 01:10:24.779
would switch it from there and some

01:10:24.779 --> 01:10:28.019
of this i think those of us who've competed a long time or done these things a long time do

01:10:28.019 --> 01:10:32.919
this kind of intuitively is well what do i work on now like what am i going

01:10:32.919 --> 01:10:37.079
to work on and we set smaller goals um i'm going to work on guard retention

01:10:37.079 --> 01:10:40.399
i'm going to work on what you know whatever small thing and if you can't think

01:10:40.399 --> 01:10:43.659
of it because you lack the skill base enough to identify that so when you go

01:10:43.659 --> 01:10:45.859
to your coach you know who is the,

01:10:46.359 --> 01:10:49.479
you know, if we're going to go into cults, you know.

01:10:50.659 --> 01:10:52.999
You go to someone who has more knowledge to help you do that.

01:10:53.199 --> 01:10:55.759
So did I hit the question? Dude, I think you said it. Yeah, no,

01:10:56.019 --> 01:10:57.579
you just tell that guy, we're here to train.

01:10:57.979 --> 01:11:03.359
Yeah, No, I mean, we're here to train. So I tell my young wrestlers, so I see that.

01:11:03.519 --> 01:11:07.159
So growing up, I'm very proud.

01:11:07.259 --> 01:11:12.139
I turned in like somebody who's, who's going to take downs eventually. But for my first,

01:11:13.055 --> 01:11:17.255
three years of wrestling, I don't even know if I took a shot. Like, I was so afraid to.

01:11:17.835 --> 01:11:24.415
And I remember, I remember this is, like, I can't remember if my coach put this

01:11:24.415 --> 01:11:27.475
in, like, I had to make a conscious decision, I'm going to start shooting.

01:11:27.975 --> 01:11:30.415
And I'm going to start coming up with the shot. That's the other thing.

01:11:30.655 --> 01:11:32.695
If you're starting to take downs, come back to your feet.

01:11:34.555 --> 01:11:39.275
But it was a, I could not wait for the emotion to catch up and propel that.

01:11:39.375 --> 01:11:42.275
I had to make the decision first and then the emotion caught

01:11:42.275 --> 01:11:45.535
up later like so the fear so when i tell my young wrestlers i'm

01:11:45.535 --> 01:11:48.255
pushing i'm say i just want you to get a

01:11:48.255 --> 01:11:52.095
shot if you lose this is if you get taken down this is practice who cares like

01:11:52.095 --> 01:11:57.095
who it means nothing it's meaningless you know you're not going to improve unless

01:11:57.095 --> 01:12:02.635
you're taking those risks so can't improve until you humble yourself but it's

01:12:02.635 --> 01:12:07.335
recognizing that emotional component because people what i find a lot with difficult things,

01:12:07.775 --> 01:12:11.815
they want to wait for the emotion to happen first of confidence.

01:12:12.495 --> 01:12:15.835
But confidence sometimes follows, it comes later.

01:12:16.035 --> 01:12:20.815
It comes after taking risk. And there's a really interesting study taken in a different way.

01:12:22.615 --> 01:12:25.875
So there's a whole approach to therapy, just behavioral therapy.

01:12:26.035 --> 01:12:30.195
Sometimes with depressed people, one of the things you do is behavioral activation.

01:12:30.455 --> 01:12:32.935
You know, they don't feel like doing anything. How do I feel like doing something?

01:12:33.055 --> 01:12:35.675
So you schedule it. You don't wait for them to feel like it.

01:12:35.775 --> 01:12:38.135
You make, like, we're going to have you start doing things.

01:12:38.395 --> 01:12:40.515
And then the emotion eventually catches up and it's like, oh,

01:12:40.555 --> 01:12:42.815
we feel good about doing this. Does that make sense? Mm-hmm.

01:12:43.395 --> 01:12:46.955
Anyways, all right. Sorry, Mikey. Oh, no, you're good. It's good stuff, man.

01:12:47.415 --> 01:12:51.115
No, so, I mean, I guess that kind of all falls into, falls under that,

01:12:51.115 --> 01:12:55.175
like, self-speak, changing your negative self-speak. Yeah, self-speak is what it is.

01:12:55.295 --> 01:12:58.475
I mean, that's all grown out of, like, cognitive therapy, cognitive hypertherapy.

01:12:58.715 --> 01:13:02.995
Yeah, I mean, Albert Ellis, Aaron Beck, his daughter, Judith Beck.

01:13:03.891 --> 01:13:08.851
Got it got it got it got it got it um this one

01:13:08.851 --> 01:13:14.411
this kind of but there might be a there's i think this is a slight variation

01:13:14.411 --> 01:13:19.691
on the first question um but we know we will take a whack at it anyways uh what

01:13:19.691 --> 01:13:24.111
is the best way to develop mental toughness when i feel like quitting,

01:13:24.891 --> 01:13:29.871
i mean so it goes right to that no it's it's it's good right to that and it's so,

01:13:30.431 --> 01:13:33.251
i think we have to recognize sometimes what emotions are i mean they're kind

01:13:33.251 --> 01:13:36.191
of mysterious right like why do we have emotions like it's kind

01:13:36.191 --> 01:13:38.931
of weird like what is it okay um but you

01:13:38.931 --> 01:13:42.431
think you know evolutionary psychology you know there must be some adaptive

01:13:42.431 --> 01:13:46.011
mechanism and so some ways of thinking like they help reinforce learning or

01:13:46.011 --> 01:13:51.491
they help you know facilitate action or something like that um but they can

01:13:51.491 --> 01:13:56.011
often be barriers to something like that you know or deceptive because again

01:13:56.011 --> 01:13:58.371
our perception of things is not always locked into reality,

01:13:58.931 --> 01:14:01.091
So if you're waiting to feel, what was it again?

01:14:01.931 --> 01:14:05.331
Oh, the mental toughness. What is the best way to develop mental toughness?

01:14:05.491 --> 01:14:10.491
So what this is, is going back to exposure to discomfort and exposure to anxiety.

01:14:10.691 --> 01:14:15.131
You become more skilled at managing those negative emotions and managing that

01:14:15.131 --> 01:14:18.351
discomfort by purposely exposing yourself to it.

01:14:18.471 --> 01:14:21.411
But keeping in mind, this is going to be uncomfortable.

01:14:21.691 --> 01:14:24.451
This is going to be not pleasant. I'm not going to like this.

01:14:24.531 --> 01:14:26.331
And eventually you learn this is not that threat.

01:14:27.152 --> 01:14:30.012
Okay. It's kind of like your first, like when you get stuck,

01:14:30.192 --> 01:14:34.552
like, um, in a certain, like somebody really heavy inside control or something

01:14:34.552 --> 01:14:36.812
like that. And they're laying on you and it's kind of panicky.

01:14:37.632 --> 01:14:40.592
Tell me about it. Show me. You lay on it.

01:14:41.092 --> 01:14:46.292
Well, you know, and, you know, it's, it's, you have to learn like, okay, I'm not dying.

01:14:46.592 --> 01:14:49.852
This is really uncomfortable. I don't like it. Like, so I'm,

01:14:49.952 --> 01:14:52.512
I want to get out of this, but I'm not going to die.

01:14:52.732 --> 01:14:55.672
Okay. I'm not, I'm not dead. and so

01:14:55.672 --> 01:15:00.832
I can tolerate this and then but through repeated exposure you're then aware

01:15:00.832 --> 01:15:06.192
like you have taught yourself I can handle this discomfort and that is mental

01:15:06.192 --> 01:15:10.472
toughness because it's saying like goal directed and essentially in the face

01:15:10.472 --> 01:15:15.412
of adversity is all that is but that only comes through exposure to adversity.

01:15:16.152 --> 01:15:22.172
So I guess in that to expand your example there, right? So rather than.

01:15:23.012 --> 01:15:26.152
Rather than tapping out to pressure in that instance, right?

01:15:26.312 --> 01:15:28.892
You accept it and you just take it.

01:15:29.132 --> 01:15:34.992
If I have to wait five fucking minutes of this round, like I know I can handle it.

01:15:35.092 --> 01:15:37.872
And then you've taught yourself, I handled Tiny.

01:15:38.132 --> 01:15:41.912
This is a guy I trained with who's not Tiny. Sitting on my chest for five minutes.

01:15:42.132 --> 01:15:43.412
He's bigger than John, by the way.

01:15:43.932 --> 01:15:47.832
And he moves really fast, which is like really unstable. Yes,

01:15:47.992 --> 01:15:49.612
he does cartwheel passes. He does cartwheel passes.

01:15:49.872 --> 01:15:53.192
Whoa. Yes, it's crazy. My life flashes before my eyes. Don't land on me.

01:15:53.192 --> 01:15:57.292
Well over 300 pounds. Just pass my guard as long as they don't land on me. You can have it. Yeah.

01:15:58.532 --> 01:16:02.112
It's crazy. Yeah. But does that make sense? Does that sort of hit the news? Yeah.

01:16:02.292 --> 01:16:06.992
So like, you know, to translate, I guess.

01:16:08.532 --> 01:16:12.312
You know, in old school wrestling coach, it's like suck it up and deal with

01:16:12.312 --> 01:16:13.632
it. Yeah. That sort of thing. I like that.

01:16:13.972 --> 01:16:16.932
But putting it better, it's not that because that's kind of a harsh way.

01:16:17.132 --> 01:16:21.452
Yeah. There's a lesson there. But it is like you got this. You will survive

01:16:21.452 --> 01:16:23.912
it. Teach yourself that you will survive it.

01:16:24.352 --> 01:16:28.052
You only teach yourself that by doing it. You will be okay. You don't have to

01:16:28.052 --> 01:16:29.852
quit. But know this, it becomes easier over time.

01:16:30.012 --> 01:16:33.052
That's the other thing. Because sometimes people often quit because it's so

01:16:33.052 --> 01:16:34.872
unpleasant in the beginning. It's so stressful.

01:16:36.212 --> 01:16:40.172
But once you learn to match that, you've taught your body and it's not stressful

01:16:40.172 --> 01:16:42.752
anymore. It'll never be like some...

01:16:43.633 --> 01:16:47.513
Pleasant, so many things, but you have taught yourself, I can master,

01:16:48.053 --> 01:16:53.773
like, uncomfortable things, that you have built yourself a new level of mental toughness. I like it.

01:16:54.193 --> 01:16:56.793
The, uh, yes, good, good, good.

01:16:57.033 --> 01:16:59.993
I got one, if, do you have more questions? I have two more, but you can ask yours.

01:17:00.193 --> 01:17:02.473
I was curious, I was talking to someone about imposter syndrome,

01:17:02.953 --> 01:17:06.613
in our space, um, and I've experienced this before, like in the,

01:17:06.673 --> 01:17:09.553
in the past, maybe still a little bit these days, but like, going up against,

01:17:09.653 --> 01:17:12.053
like imagine like you're going, you're going to a world championship and you

01:17:12.053 --> 01:17:14.013
face like a, a guy you've watched on TV.

01:17:15.493 --> 01:17:21.453
Okay, so this is interesting. How do I step up? Okay, so can we unpack it a little bit? Unpack.

01:17:21.713 --> 01:17:23.273
Okay, have you done that? Do you want to use me as an example?

01:17:23.413 --> 01:17:24.153
How did that happen to you?

01:17:24.453 --> 01:17:27.493
Years ago, but yes. Okay, do you remember what you were thinking then when you

01:17:27.493 --> 01:17:29.773
saw that? Yeah, like, holy crap, this guy's better than me.

01:17:30.133 --> 01:17:34.213
Okay. Right? Based off, so let's go. Totally just because you're intimidated by the situation.

01:17:34.313 --> 01:17:38.293
Yes. You're saying before you actually started.

01:17:38.653 --> 01:17:45.593
Yes. I had a match in ADCC Trials nine years ago. That was a new black belt.

01:17:46.301 --> 01:17:49.341
Um, and I didn't, uh, this is my story, dude.

01:17:49.401 --> 01:17:52.681
I've like, I've, I've had to, I've kind of had to run in my way through my,

01:17:52.781 --> 01:17:54.881
my, my professors were always like remote.

01:17:55.021 --> 01:18:00.281
Right. So I was kind of like going out into the unknown of my shit, like on my own anyways.

01:18:00.541 --> 01:18:03.741
Um, but, uh, but yeah, like going up against a dude, you're like,

01:18:03.821 --> 01:18:05.321
Oh, I've watched this guy on TV.

01:18:05.481 --> 01:18:08.181
Like, I don't know if I can, I kind of like almost like acquiescing to defeat

01:18:08.181 --> 01:18:09.081
before you get out there.

01:18:09.221 --> 01:18:12.701
And when I grappled with the dude, like six minute match, ADCC,

01:18:12.921 --> 01:18:14.041
we were just competitive man.

01:18:14.201 --> 01:18:17.001
It was a good match. like i i left shit out on the table right like it became

01:18:17.001 --> 01:18:18.481
a lesson for me i kind of like i i.

01:18:19.381 --> 01:18:22.701
Have worked through that i mean let's work through it but

01:18:22.701 --> 01:18:25.401
um i remember very much like having this like oh my

01:18:25.401 --> 01:18:28.141
god i don't belong here this guy's gonna kick my ass but then

01:18:28.141 --> 01:18:30.661
going out and doing it be like no man like i mean i didn't even believe it in

01:18:30.661 --> 01:18:33.701
the moment it's a perfect example even and it's good insight

01:18:33.701 --> 01:18:36.901
in what you're thinking and i'll say it's normal okay and

01:18:36.901 --> 01:18:39.601
what's interesting about all these things that's set up we'll take

01:18:39.601 --> 01:18:42.441
this back then to like social comparison theory and status

01:18:42.441 --> 01:18:46.041
and all this stuff this person has status that

01:18:46.041 --> 01:18:48.701
you don't have because there's this social media presence and we're

01:18:48.701 --> 01:18:51.461
hardwired to think well then they they must be amazing they

01:18:51.461 --> 01:18:54.361
they're better they're of a higher status because of this like i

01:18:54.361 --> 01:18:57.501
am below okay like that now this is all false

01:18:57.501 --> 01:19:00.321
and it's you know horseshit it's made up

01:19:00.321 --> 01:19:02.941
and they might be they might not be but this is all you don't know right

01:19:02.941 --> 01:19:06.121
we don't know which is the stressful and

01:19:06.121 --> 01:19:09.161
exciting part of that but um that is

01:19:09.161 --> 01:19:11.961
the time again you stop those thoughts you experience that emotion

01:19:11.961 --> 01:19:16.381
you stop those thoughts and you start evaluating that like like what

01:19:16.381 --> 01:19:19.581
is the evidence for this just because he has a strong social media presence

01:19:19.581 --> 01:19:25.441
yeah you know is that does that is that the mark of a talented grappler it's

01:19:25.441 --> 01:19:29.061
it's not like so you can start playing you can kind of play scientist with it

01:19:29.061 --> 01:19:31.261
he's better because i've heard

01:19:31.261 --> 01:19:35.681
of him i've heard of him because whatever social media sites who's in it.

01:19:36.930 --> 01:19:40.350
What is the evidence that, like, there is no. So you can start evaluating it.

01:19:40.750 --> 01:19:43.930
It also comes down to, do I give up? Do I run away?

01:19:44.350 --> 01:19:46.910
At the end of the day, you're going to shake hands, or slap bump,

01:19:46.930 --> 01:19:47.830
or what are we doing in jiu-jitsu.

01:19:49.570 --> 01:19:55.490
And you're going to get after it. Okay. And you can rephrase that narrative, like, this is exciting.

01:19:55.650 --> 01:19:57.830
You know, I'm going to be the giant killer today, or whatever like that,

01:19:57.830 --> 01:20:00.270
or I'm going to be this. You know, some guys are really, really good at that.

01:20:01.010 --> 01:20:05.050
Um some guys get so wrapped up in you

01:20:05.050 --> 01:20:08.050
know researching the other guys records and all this other stuff

01:20:08.050 --> 01:20:11.110
i mean there's a balance because you know you can get game plans i

01:20:11.110 --> 01:20:14.650
mean that's a whole other topic sure does that make sense it does yeah yeah

01:20:14.650 --> 01:20:17.850
yeah reframe the narrative to from this guy's

01:20:17.850 --> 01:20:20.910
better to me that to i have an opportunity to prove

01:20:20.910 --> 01:20:23.710
that i am that this guy's i'm as

01:20:23.710 --> 01:20:26.590
good as these guys yeah this is this is my day

01:20:26.590 --> 01:20:29.710
this is my this is my damn you know some people really like

01:20:29.710 --> 01:20:32.630
to be the underdog too so if it's what they

01:20:32.630 --> 01:20:35.610
have done they flip the script on its head because other

01:20:35.610 --> 01:20:38.910
people once they achieve something then they feel pressure because

01:20:38.910 --> 01:20:41.910
they're like yes it's a different imposter so which plays an imposter syndrome

01:20:41.910 --> 01:20:46.090
i've achieved this thing and it's it's it's really interesting because jujitsu

01:20:46.090 --> 01:20:49.630
also has the potential to set this up once you get a belt level and i see it

01:20:49.630 --> 01:20:52.630
on social media i feel imposter syndrome i don't feel like a whatever you're

01:20:52.630 --> 01:20:58.190
about because in their mind they have built this story around what that means and they have said,

01:20:58.410 --> 01:21:00.610
and then they achieve it, and they're like, well, I don't feel any different.

01:21:00.670 --> 01:21:02.650
I didn't get my magic levitating powers.

01:21:03.790 --> 01:21:04.930
I'm like, uh.

01:21:06.440 --> 01:21:09.220
It's all the story it's all the story we're telling ourself and it's the meaning

01:21:09.220 --> 01:21:11.860
we're ascribing to this okay so we we have to

01:21:11.860 --> 01:21:15.860
challenge that and challenge the reality of that and potentially change it so

01:21:15.860 --> 01:21:20.180
these are all i mean these principles just i mean apply across so many things

01:21:20.180 --> 01:21:25.660
i like it it would be cool though if we get our belts and you like unlock new

01:21:25.660 --> 01:21:30.700
moves like in a video game like you can't feel power on your legs still can break dude it's like,

01:21:31.680 --> 01:21:34.460
I unlocked a new move. I like it.

01:21:35.020 --> 01:21:40.640
Yeah, I mean, that's super, that's a super useful, I think that's a super useful

01:21:40.640 --> 01:21:45.020
thing to, yeah, lesson. Dude, I'm so bad with words.

01:21:45.980 --> 01:21:49.620
God. I forgot the word words. I forgot the word words.

01:21:49.880 --> 01:21:55.300
What are the sounds we make to express thoughts? What are those things that come out of our mouths?

01:21:56.860 --> 01:21:59.720
So, next question. how do i

01:21:59.720 --> 01:22:02.540
maintain motivation when i feel like i

01:22:02.540 --> 01:22:05.420
am not improving i'm really is he gonna

01:22:05.420 --> 01:22:09.520
quit well he has said this yeah

01:22:09.520 --> 01:22:12.380
he's kind of awesome yeah he's staying aj

01:22:12.380 --> 01:22:15.480
you're staying aj you're not allowed to leave we're speaking

01:22:15.480 --> 01:22:18.580
it into public now you can't so maintaining motivation

01:22:18.580 --> 01:22:21.720
and this is interesting so i think

01:22:21.720 --> 01:22:24.360
you have to take a step back and be like why am i doing this so you

01:22:24.360 --> 01:22:27.160
ask that first so what is my motive like what is my

01:22:27.160 --> 01:22:30.280
goal like what what am i doing this for okay and

01:22:30.280 --> 01:22:34.240
that's that's the first thing because let's almost no

01:22:34.240 --> 01:22:38.300
one's like i want to be the abc's champion or like want to be but like that's

01:22:38.300 --> 01:22:41.520
not my goal right you know like you know it's not my goal right now maybe when

01:22:41.520 --> 01:22:45.540
i was young like out of college i would have loved to have tried that but i'm

01:22:45.540 --> 01:22:52.360
a 47 year old dad whose body is breaking by the moment um that's not why i do it,

01:22:53.008 --> 01:22:57.848
So I'd say for this person, you know, why are you here? What is your goal?

01:22:58.168 --> 01:23:01.908
Now, if it's now relating to this last question, if it's wrapped up in this

01:23:01.908 --> 01:23:06.728
idea of sense of self and ego and sort of your evaluation of yourself,

01:23:06.928 --> 01:23:11.448
you're setting yourself up for failure right there because you, this is not you.

01:23:11.848 --> 01:23:15.908
It's maybe it's a side of you. It's an identity. It's something you choose to do.

01:23:16.468 --> 01:23:20.848
But if you, the greatest athletes all fade eventually.

01:23:21.588 --> 01:23:24.648
Some live on like for a while but like

01:23:24.648 --> 01:23:28.208
um you know you're michael jordan or whatever but you're

01:23:28.208 --> 01:23:30.968
babe ruth but you know you fade

01:23:30.968 --> 01:23:33.728
and people after and you find this

01:23:33.728 --> 01:23:36.628
after people stop their sport where

01:23:36.628 --> 01:23:39.808
it has become a central core of your identity i mean i remember the feeling

01:23:39.808 --> 01:23:42.788
of loss so i broke my ankle my senior year of college

01:23:42.788 --> 01:23:45.988
my best year i was returning national qualifier i

01:23:45.988 --> 01:23:49.408
was champion when i broke my ankle and basically had

01:23:49.408 --> 01:23:52.428
to miss my season i felt a loss of identity

01:23:52.428 --> 01:23:55.428
a loss of myself and it was something that was really hard

01:23:55.428 --> 01:23:58.068
to deal with and i talked to my buddies i wrestled with the college i talked

01:23:58.068 --> 01:24:01.108
about how hard it was leaving that behind like that's

01:24:01.108 --> 01:24:04.028
not me anymore that's the story i told about myself

01:24:04.028 --> 01:24:07.808
this was such a core aspect of what i told about myself so if you were training

01:24:07.808 --> 01:24:12.028
jujitsu as this is me this is the core aspect you know you're you're gonna you're

01:24:12.028 --> 01:24:16.188
gonna set yourself up for failure instead of like this is something i enjoy

01:24:16.188 --> 01:24:19.768
doing this brings me pleasure this brings me joy i like doing these things,

01:24:20.008 --> 01:24:21.928
you know, that's going to be motivation.

01:24:22.108 --> 01:24:25.968
Now, temporary motivations, now goals can help too.

01:24:26.128 --> 01:24:30.128
So if you do have a goal, like I want to win IBGJF, whatever,

01:24:30.488 --> 01:24:33.668
um, that can be a great goal.

01:24:34.481 --> 01:24:37.001
In the meantime, to do the things you don't want to do. So in the train up,

01:24:37.021 --> 01:24:40.341
I had to see him give me some ways to develop my cardio.

01:24:42.181 --> 01:24:44.681
I don't like it. I like pushing weights around. I'm not going to lie.

01:24:45.081 --> 01:24:48.301
You know, I'm doing it. Now I'm trying to do it more because I'm an old guy.

01:24:49.341 --> 01:24:51.621
He listens. I'd be careful what you say about his programming.

01:24:51.701 --> 01:24:53.121
He might make you do more. No, it's good.

01:24:53.721 --> 01:24:56.681
No, it's good. I love it. I did cardio today.

01:24:56.681 --> 01:24:59.881
That i'd skip so anyways um but that

01:24:59.881 --> 01:25:05.661
motivation for a goal helped push me to do things i don't do right now okay

01:25:05.661 --> 01:25:09.941
so on the temporary if your motivation um but that wasn't my motivation i want

01:25:09.941 --> 01:25:13.061
to do this this is on the path there i'm going to do this thing i don't want

01:25:13.061 --> 01:25:17.641
to do okay but day-to-day jujitsu if you if you were letting it destroy your

01:25:17.641 --> 01:25:19.061
sense of self you're inherently,

01:25:19.701 --> 01:25:22.681
unmotivating yourself but if you're taking an approach that i'm going to get

01:25:22.681 --> 01:25:27.101
better at this thing, I'm enjoying the company of my training partners,

01:25:27.281 --> 01:25:30.161
I'm enjoying the sense it gives me, that will be your motivation.

01:25:30.481 --> 01:25:33.961
If you're having a hard time getting up in the morning, the others need to teach

01:25:33.961 --> 01:25:35.081
yourself, like a lot of these things.

01:25:35.941 --> 01:25:39.241
It's harder in the beginning, but you build a habit later.

01:25:40.721 --> 01:25:44.101
So know that things get easier after you do them over time.

01:25:45.121 --> 01:25:49.001
I'm weaving in a lot of different thoughts. It makes sense.

01:25:49.181 --> 01:25:53.121
Do you think, to merge a couple of those questions into one, it,

01:25:53.841 --> 01:25:58.001
i'm a psychologist now um well do

01:25:58.001 --> 01:26:00.781
you think it's like it could be like a confluence of the same story kind of

01:26:00.781 --> 01:26:03.921
leading this dude into like a just a direction that's no longer helpful for

01:26:03.921 --> 01:26:07.261
him and therefore like at least like you said maybe just switch just make a

01:26:07.261 --> 01:26:10.341
choice switch the story over to like just two directions over here and you're

01:26:10.341 --> 01:26:15.961
good yeah i'd say switch it right oh yeah so um stop putting so much pressure on yourself for.

01:26:17.416 --> 01:26:20.416
What are your goals? Quit trying to win training. Quit trying to win training.

01:26:21.336 --> 01:26:24.916
When getting better this week? Am I better today than I was yesterday?

01:26:25.056 --> 01:26:26.156
Am I better this week than last week?

01:26:26.356 --> 01:26:29.336
The other thing with that, this one thing I would warn people,

01:26:29.416 --> 01:26:34.716
though, is learning plateaus are very normal. Training plateaus are very normal.

01:26:35.076 --> 01:26:39.276
And so this is really interesting if I could take a detour at this.

01:26:39.436 --> 01:26:40.076
Yes. There's something.

01:26:41.336 --> 01:26:45.436
Part of what I think maybe makes jujitsu addicting. So there's something called

01:26:45.436 --> 01:26:49.136
an intermittent ratio reinforcement schedule. There's something out there there. Oh, baby.

01:26:49.596 --> 01:26:52.516
You all hear that? I don't know what it is, but I like it. You lost me the first

01:26:52.516 --> 01:26:56.836
part. So it's sort of like, so it's the best example you're always taught when

01:26:56.836 --> 01:26:58.616
you're learning about this is a slot machine.

01:26:59.076 --> 01:27:01.256
You pull, you don't know when that win's coming.

01:27:01.796 --> 01:27:06.016
You might pull 10 times and you get a win. Then you pull two times,

01:27:06.076 --> 01:27:07.296
you get another win. Then you pull 100.

01:27:07.456 --> 01:27:11.456
You don't know. And so it actually shows that's the most powerful reinforcement

01:27:11.456 --> 01:27:13.936
of giving someone to create a behavior.

01:27:14.576 --> 01:27:18.356
Now, what's interesting with jujitsu with that is like these breakthroughs kind

01:27:18.356 --> 01:27:19.716
of happen unpredictably.

01:27:19.856 --> 01:27:23.916
And I think to me as long, like, man, I can suddenly hit this sweep that I wasn't

01:27:23.916 --> 01:27:26.656
able to hit before. So that's sometimes reinforcing.

01:27:27.296 --> 01:27:32.596
But if you're not someone who can tolerate the discomfort and of,

01:27:32.756 --> 01:27:35.876
if you're not aware that these plateaus exist in learning and you're making

01:27:35.876 --> 01:27:39.916
this all about your ego, you're going to become very disheartened very easily

01:27:39.916 --> 01:27:41.196
in learning through these things.

01:27:41.376 --> 01:27:45.116
Does that make sense? Yeah, if you're worried about beating the person in front

01:27:45.116 --> 01:27:47.396
of you who is, in fact, your teammate in this case.

01:27:47.536 --> 01:27:49.976
And that guy's also getting better, too, because that's why the Platinum— And

01:27:49.976 --> 01:27:54.316
you're setting unrealistic expectations of yourself. Like, I watched five videos this week.

01:27:54.516 --> 01:27:56.736
I'm going to submit everyone on Wednesday. That's right.

01:27:56.976 --> 01:28:02.056
Why can't I do this move that I learned online? I'm now the app master of Octopus

01:28:02.056 --> 01:28:04.376
Guard 2.0. I watched it once.

01:28:04.776 --> 01:28:09.836
Why can't I use Octopus Guard? Yeah. It makes sense. That makes plenty of sense.

01:28:11.616 --> 01:28:14.196
Any more on that one? So with that last one, it's almost like,

01:28:14.336 --> 01:28:17.776
if I can just draw to the slot machine thing, is it basically just like,

01:28:18.611 --> 01:28:21.251
Just keep pulling, baby. Keep pulling the slot machine. You don't know when

01:28:21.251 --> 01:28:22.691
it's going to happen, but like. Yeah, you don't want to stop.

01:28:22.891 --> 01:28:25.951
So no. Just keep showing up in training and like, it'll happen. Like just show up.

01:28:26.231 --> 01:28:29.751
Show up and then, and you can accelerate it, like I said, by being,

01:28:29.971 --> 01:28:34.011
by hacking how we learn best and by being purposeful in your training and setting

01:28:34.011 --> 01:28:39.091
yourself small achievable goals that often, again, take advantage of your coach

01:28:39.091 --> 01:28:40.691
to learn what those should be.

01:28:40.991 --> 01:28:45.071
So you're not wandering around in the dark, but those small achievable goals.

01:28:46.031 --> 01:28:48.991
So I'm going to get better at guard retention. that's all

01:28:48.991 --> 01:28:52.551
i'm working on for this next month that's an

01:28:52.551 --> 01:28:55.791
achievable goal versus i'm gonna master worm

01:28:55.791 --> 01:28:58.611
guards or whatever the hell that is i don't know um i don't

01:28:58.611 --> 01:29:01.371
know what worm guard is but like you know like jumping right into it like

01:29:01.371 --> 01:29:04.371
i'm gonna master this thing like you're not gonna master it right away and through

01:29:04.371 --> 01:29:07.671
it's like you are you especially new

01:29:07.671 --> 01:29:10.631
people i feel like once you train for a while you kind of get this intuitively but

01:29:10.631 --> 01:29:13.971
new people i see get very frustrated because they're like i've

01:29:13.971 --> 01:29:17.111
been coming and i still haven't like submitted mikey

01:29:17.111 --> 01:29:20.511
or something like that i think this is also something that um

01:29:20.511 --> 01:29:23.771
that becomes prevalent with people that

01:29:23.771 --> 01:29:26.711
are already an expert at something else um this

01:29:26.711 --> 01:29:29.571
happens a lot with people that are really high performers in whatever

01:29:29.571 --> 01:29:35.471
their profession is or they were elite at something else or they see themselves

01:29:35.471 --> 01:29:40.531
as being an expert in x y or you know whatever other you know hobby they have

01:29:40.531 --> 01:29:44.891
and they come to jujitsu and they're not an expert or they feel like they're

01:29:44.891 --> 01:29:49.511
not attaining expertise fast enough, and it's hard for them to like...

01:29:49.511 --> 01:29:53.551
Well, that's that ego-oriented tricks of things, is that you're doing it for the,

01:29:54.477 --> 01:29:57.577
the observation of others or sort of the status of others instead of the task

01:29:57.577 --> 01:30:00.877
orientation of I am doing it to get better at this thing.

01:30:01.177 --> 01:30:04.677
And so those people, I would say, need it most because you need your ego,

01:30:04.837 --> 01:30:07.477
need a kick in the ass and you need to settle yourself down a little bit.

01:30:07.677 --> 01:30:09.057
Do we mat and force these people?

01:30:10.657 --> 01:30:14.237
That's right. No. I'm just curious, like, I mean, so I think you called out

01:30:14.237 --> 01:30:15.597
like some practical takeaways too.

01:30:15.697 --> 01:30:18.457
Like maybe if people listening, if they're coaches or coaches,

01:30:18.777 --> 01:30:23.137
you coach, and you've coached like wrestlers, you've got that lens as well.

01:30:23.817 --> 01:30:29.117
It, I have this like a refrain that I've kind of like exercised with some of

01:30:29.117 --> 01:30:33.277
my students that I learned for myself, which was basically.

01:30:33.517 --> 01:30:36.437
And this is, I guess, the call to action for people in a coaching position,

01:30:36.457 --> 01:30:40.317
which is, I feel like sometimes, like you said, there's like a goal slash task

01:30:40.317 --> 01:30:42.517
orientation that like folks can come into training with.

01:30:42.517 --> 01:30:45.517
And if they're not appropriately like focused in

01:30:45.517 --> 01:30:48.597
on a thing they'll just kind of their eyes will

01:30:48.597 --> 01:30:51.257
wander wherever in jiu-jitsu and so we'll kind of just be like

01:30:51.257 --> 01:30:54.517
you'll come in and do like you might do months of jiu-jitsu and be like and

01:30:54.517 --> 01:30:57.457
you even just showing like just showing up has value right

01:30:57.457 --> 01:31:00.397
but like you might not if you're not paying attention to a thing like you mentioned guard retention

01:31:00.397 --> 01:31:03.957
for me like that my my i guess my my thought or

01:31:03.957 --> 01:31:06.697
my observation using myself was like when i actually pay attention to a thing

01:31:06.697 --> 01:31:09.737
in training i tend to actually observe like notice get

01:31:09.737 --> 01:31:12.557
better at it rather than when i kind of come and i just wing it and some days i'll

01:31:12.557 --> 01:31:14.437
just wing it because like you like you said like you know i just want to show

01:31:14.437 --> 01:31:15.217
up i'm 40 something year old

01:31:15.217 --> 01:31:18.017
sometimes i want to show but i just want to move around too not every day

01:31:18.017 --> 01:31:21.057
has to have like an absurd task observational focus but

01:31:21.057 --> 01:31:24.237
my all i'm saying is those days i'm like i'm kind of flown just

01:31:24.237 --> 01:31:26.877
i just want to move around right and that's sort of balance in the

01:31:26.877 --> 01:31:29.817
mindset and you're exactly right because imagine if you're trying to master

01:31:29.817 --> 01:31:32.637
a um well the language psychology let's

01:31:32.637 --> 01:31:35.577
say well so you're trying to learn psychology and i came in and i

01:31:35.577 --> 01:31:39.017
just read a random portion from the book every day i just flipped open something

01:31:39.017 --> 01:31:42.397
like you're it's it's gonna take you forever to tie it all together instead

01:31:42.397 --> 01:31:47.217
of focusing on one thing at a time um yeah you need those times where like i

01:31:47.217 --> 01:31:51.117
said i want i just kind of want to fuck around today and goof off with my buddies

01:31:51.117 --> 01:31:55.517
but like if i'm focused in like usually usually for me i'm.

01:31:56.493 --> 01:32:00.433
I've learned this and I know this is the best way to learn so whatever

01:32:00.433 --> 01:32:03.473
is taught in class that days are taught in class I can't retain it sometimes

01:32:03.473 --> 01:32:06.373
I can retain it maybe not but like I want to go back and I'm like okay

01:32:06.373 --> 01:32:11.113
I'm back to focusing on escaping um side

01:32:11.113 --> 01:32:13.973
mount from tiny or something like that or I'm focused on

01:32:13.973 --> 01:32:16.993
I'm going back to deep half entries and that I might

01:32:16.993 --> 01:32:20.173
just focus on personally until I feel like I got it okay enough

01:32:20.173 --> 01:32:23.253
and then like I usually move on to something else because

01:32:23.253 --> 01:32:25.913
if you if you i feel like and i i don't

01:32:25.913 --> 01:32:29.393
think there's another way to do this with jiu-jitsu because i've thought about it you're

01:32:29.393 --> 01:32:32.293
coaching a wrestling team you have a season you have the same people there every day

01:32:32.293 --> 01:32:35.193
you can set a course of instruction to kind of develop them

01:32:35.193 --> 01:32:38.093
out jiu-jitsu you got people coming and going all the time so

01:32:38.093 --> 01:32:41.193
you got there's no really no great way except

01:32:41.193 --> 01:32:44.573
you're teaching some moves people coming and going um

01:32:44.573 --> 01:32:47.973
so you as an individual are going to be overwhelmed too

01:32:47.973 --> 01:32:50.853
much if you try to learn the three moves of the day

01:32:50.853 --> 01:32:53.853
every day you got 15 moves a week it's just

01:32:53.853 --> 01:32:57.013
it'll never happen it'll never happen um so

01:32:57.013 --> 01:32:59.873
you set a small goal that's achievable you know

01:32:59.873 --> 01:33:02.573
that i'm going to focus on this one thing whatever it is

01:33:02.573 --> 01:33:05.633
then you'll get better at it you'll get better you'll concentrate your effort

01:33:05.633 --> 01:33:10.833
on this thing yes yeah that's all right yeah i mean and from a coaching perspective

01:33:10.833 --> 01:33:15.713
and just because we're we're in the same room i have maybe like two or three

01:33:15.713 --> 01:33:22.453
guys that are there every day like every so i try to focus in on a section like

01:33:22.453 --> 01:33:24.813
on like a position for at least a month.

01:33:25.033 --> 01:33:28.213
So I could try to. I love it. I love such. And like so that there's always some

01:33:28.213 --> 01:33:32.573
everyone always has a context to it. But the issue is like.

01:33:33.420 --> 01:33:38.400
You kind of are, if it is constantly, it's a ever-expanding,

01:33:38.480 --> 01:33:39.560
like, ever-growing thing,

01:33:40.100 --> 01:33:43.640
because, you know, it's like, all right, we're going to start on Monday, and then, like,

01:33:43.840 --> 01:33:47.340
three weeks from now, we'll have continued through this, like,

01:33:47.480 --> 01:33:51.760
progression through this position, and we're kind of reinforcing all these things

01:33:51.760 --> 01:33:54.480
and building upon whatever we learned that first day, right?

01:33:54.520 --> 01:33:56.480
Like, it's a constant building.

01:33:56.920 --> 01:34:00.720
And if, like, this week, we started D-Path.

01:34:01.180 --> 01:34:04.220
And so if the people on

01:34:04.220 --> 01:34:08.160
monday and the people on thursday is completely

01:34:08.160 --> 01:34:11.180
make up a completely different people with the exception of

01:34:11.180 --> 01:34:14.340
two people then you have people that feel lost

01:34:14.340 --> 01:34:17.980
because you know so like how do you meet the needs of everyone yeah i've experienced

01:34:17.980 --> 01:34:22.260
i could coach in the wrestling class i've realized i mean there's this a new

01:34:22.260 --> 01:34:25.600
kid who showed up last night and so i had planned like to focus on one thing

01:34:25.600 --> 01:34:28.760
the people who started showing up and like okay we're gonna go over this he

01:34:28.760 --> 01:34:31.360
doesn't know how to stand you know i go i gotta teach you how to stand.

01:34:33.000 --> 01:34:39.560
And i'm like okay so it's a yeah that's a challenge to jujitsu specifically um so but i'm,

01:34:40.340 --> 01:34:45.500
say mike i think you're doing a good job on this um but i guess my kind of an

01:34:45.500 --> 01:34:51.620
additional i think this is like a additional a little additional point for this um.

01:34:53.072 --> 01:35:00.432
Give yourself, try to find context in every single, like, in the lesson, right?

01:35:00.632 --> 01:35:07.732
So, you don't have, what is being shown isn't finite the way it's being shown.

01:35:07.732 --> 01:35:10.992
And I've actually, this person, I've told this.

01:35:11.532 --> 01:35:16.352
But it isn't, the way it's being shown isn't the finite solution.

01:35:16.352 --> 01:35:22.932
You can find context or details that are applicable in other things that you

01:35:22.932 --> 01:35:24.352
do use. The threads start pulling together.

01:35:24.752 --> 01:35:28.452
Somebody once compared it to learning a language. Suddenly, it starts making

01:35:28.452 --> 01:35:29.472
sense and you don't know when.

01:35:29.632 --> 01:35:33.632
I even experienced that, even though, again, lots of wrestling background.

01:35:33.812 --> 01:35:38.212
But mainly in the practice room, I play guard because I want to learn jiu-jitsu stuff.

01:35:39.452 --> 01:35:42.712
And I'll say, I experienced that. I'm like, oh, I'm starting to see how this

01:35:42.712 --> 01:35:44.112
now ties together a bit more.

01:35:44.192 --> 01:35:47.892
But it didn't make any sense to me. why am i you know why am i on my back why

01:35:47.892 --> 01:35:52.172
is he on his back he's supposed to get off his back yeah like i just think if

01:35:52.172 --> 01:35:57.652
if you get too focused on doing exactly what you're seeing and not like,

01:35:58.552 --> 01:36:02.832
just you know if you look too big picture right like why am i doing this versus

01:36:02.832 --> 01:36:06.512
just like what is you know what is happening what are the little movements and

01:36:06.512 --> 01:36:11.742
attachments yeah yeah and it's it's Tell those people, again,

01:36:12.542 --> 01:36:17.782
embrace the frustration, lean into it, and have faith that you will master and pull it together.

01:36:19.332 --> 01:36:22.912
Because it does. You know, eventually it starts to make sense.

01:36:23.112 --> 01:36:26.592
And put your, like, stop putting so much pressure on yourself.

01:36:27.092 --> 01:36:29.952
That, like, this does not define who you are. Like, it's like,

01:36:30.032 --> 01:36:33.992
your ability to hit an umapalata does not define who you are.

01:36:34.212 --> 01:36:37.192
Yes. Now your ability to hit a double leg takedown does. Oh.

01:36:37.292 --> 01:36:40.432
Yes. If you can finish it, you better be able to hit those.

01:36:41.472 --> 01:36:46.412
Because wrestling is like a marriage, as John would say. You know the secret to a good takedown?

01:36:47.172 --> 01:36:50.032
Commitment. Okay. That's right. It's the same as to a good marriage.

01:36:50.352 --> 01:36:54.092
Successful takedown, successful marriage. That's awesome. Both take commitment. Oh, baby.

01:36:54.492 --> 01:36:56.812
And we do have one more question. Bring it.

01:36:57.292 --> 01:37:03.172
What is the best way to prepare mentally for training on days I feel lazy or tired?

01:37:03.592 --> 01:37:08.152
So in other words, how do I get my ass out of bed? Well, I think,

01:37:08.272 --> 01:37:10.752
I mean, that's exactly the thing. Like, what is your goal again?

01:37:11.072 --> 01:37:14.732
Because that's when a long-term goal is more important than a short-term goal.

01:37:14.912 --> 01:37:17.752
And that long-term goal has to resonate with you emotionally in some way.

01:37:17.752 --> 01:37:21.472
Because that's important you know um so you're

01:37:21.472 --> 01:37:24.612
doing the cardio i seem to be cardio i don't want to do cardio but i

01:37:24.612 --> 01:37:27.832
do want to win worlds you know well

01:37:27.832 --> 01:37:30.452
shit i'm going to do cardio i never there was never a day i was

01:37:30.452 --> 01:37:33.312
like i'm gonna i can't wait to jump on that assault bike yeah like

01:37:33.312 --> 01:37:36.632
yay no i hate that thing i can't

01:37:36.632 --> 01:37:39.812
wait to hit the track not like no fuck that um but

01:37:39.812 --> 01:37:42.812
i really like to win so like i will

01:37:42.812 --> 01:37:46.212
do that so you what your goal is like i want

01:37:46.212 --> 01:37:49.272
the satisfaction of earning my whatever belt

01:37:49.272 --> 01:37:52.152
one day well like if that does if

01:37:52.152 --> 01:37:55.372
that is a goal of yours and it resonates you have to tell yourself that in the

01:37:55.372 --> 01:37:59.372
moment to remind yourself of it that's why you have i mean there's so many sports

01:37:59.372 --> 01:38:02.712
movies that sort of say this you know like the rocky movie that he has drago

01:38:02.712 --> 01:38:06.172
up on there you know he sort of grabs it as he's training and you know that's

01:38:06.172 --> 01:38:09.732
that's just like or that is reminding yourself of the goal.

01:38:09.892 --> 01:38:13.412
You're triggering your emotional response to say like, this is important.

01:38:13.732 --> 01:38:17.272
So I'm gonna get my ass out of bed and trade, okay? Dude, let me,

01:38:17.352 --> 01:38:21.492
can I ask you a question about that? Yeah. What is it about like how like.

01:38:22.376 --> 01:38:25.336
Feel like psychologically and physically like

01:38:25.336 --> 01:38:28.296
when when you okay this dude's asking this question is probably because like like most

01:38:28.296 --> 01:38:31.296
of us when we wake up we don't always feel awesome right yeah i know so like

01:38:31.296 --> 01:38:34.796
when when like the physical i bet

01:38:34.796 --> 01:38:37.656
it's a brain thing maybe there's like a maybe it's a testosterone thing

01:38:37.656 --> 01:38:40.736
as we age but like when we get more tired like we have to tap into emotional stuff

01:38:40.736 --> 01:38:43.536
to kind of motivate us to go yeah because like when you're when you're like up and

01:38:43.536 --> 01:38:46.276
you're like oh i can do anything like training feels amazing right but when

01:38:46.276 --> 01:38:49.216
you start to get tired i don't know it's supposed to break you down like what is that

01:38:49.216 --> 01:38:52.216
we're like are like maybe it's like a reward when the motivation comes

01:38:52.216 --> 01:38:55.276
out yeah yeah so you gotta dig deep well and yeah

01:38:55.276 --> 01:38:58.416
to kind of add to that there is that point with those

01:38:58.416 --> 01:39:01.536
things where you have the breakthrough moment right yeah

01:39:01.536 --> 01:39:04.656
like or if you're on the assault bike and you're like oh my god i'm fucking dead

01:39:04.656 --> 01:39:07.676
but i'm gonna keep going dude like what is that well

01:39:07.676 --> 01:39:10.896
um cool i i think it's that um.

01:39:10.896 --> 01:39:13.896
Well like what caused you to break through that yeah you

01:39:13.896 --> 01:39:16.816
know i think what you have done what you have done where you've like

01:39:16.816 --> 01:39:19.696
i have broken through it you've had mastery experiences before that

01:39:19.696 --> 01:39:22.656
where you know you can remember and you're tapping into i remember

01:39:22.656 --> 01:39:26.596
how good i felt because i conquered um i've

01:39:26.596 --> 01:39:29.536
conquered that feeling of wanting to quit and so

01:39:29.536 --> 01:39:32.576
sometimes that's what you tap into it's something up this like

01:39:32.576 --> 01:39:35.456
i yeah i was rocky balboa i climbed the

01:39:35.456 --> 01:39:38.356
mountain or whatever i can find the stairs um but like

01:39:38.356 --> 01:39:41.056
that's a good feeling and like that's sometimes what

01:39:41.056 --> 01:39:43.876
i tap into i've never like regretted working

01:39:43.876 --> 01:39:46.956
out you know i've regretted blowing it off and

01:39:46.956 --> 01:39:49.736
sitting on my ass and you know doing whatever and like man

01:39:49.736 --> 01:39:52.456
why did the feeling of shame when you don't run the full

01:39:52.456 --> 01:39:55.396
four miles but like you have to have those experiences of

01:39:55.396 --> 01:39:59.976
learning that to draw upon that to master it and this is like so many people.

01:39:59.976 --> 01:40:03.356
Who are not experienced this a lot of us so you were a swimmer scott so you

01:40:03.356 --> 01:40:06.176
i mean that's a very demanding sport you did at a young age we were mike and

01:40:06.176 --> 01:40:10.276
i were wrestlers we have experiences to pull from of knowing what that's like

01:40:10.276 --> 01:40:12.576
to conquer something and i think people,

01:40:13.296 --> 01:40:17.456
who don't have experiences to pull from, that's going to be harder, but they will get it.

01:40:17.596 --> 01:40:21.156
You just have faith, and then those are a motivating thing in itself right there.

01:40:21.616 --> 01:40:24.576
So remembering your goals. The other thing I would say, though, too.

01:40:25.643 --> 01:40:29.303
Um, you have to have, there's different phases.

01:40:29.603 --> 01:40:34.383
So if you are a competitor, you can't keep a competitive mindset up for a full year.

01:40:34.563 --> 01:40:38.843
Like most people can't, like you can't train, like I'm in training camp or competition

01:40:38.843 --> 01:40:41.403
for a full year. I mean, most people burn out in some way.

01:40:41.583 --> 01:40:46.003
So it's good to have phases to things. Um, so then you might turn,

01:40:46.203 --> 01:40:50.203
switch your goals, like switch from a, that ego goal, which,

01:40:50.283 --> 01:40:54.123
you know, winning, you know, winning a big competition. It's an ego goal.

01:40:54.243 --> 01:40:57.643
I don't want to do that. Like, that's okay. It's okay to have that.

01:40:58.063 --> 01:41:02.323
Then I might switch to more, I want to get better at deep half goal.

01:41:02.563 --> 01:41:07.003
I've passed what it is. And so that's going to be my shorter term goal. It's less emotional.

01:41:07.183 --> 01:41:11.623
It's more process oriented, less sort of ego oriented. You can have both.

01:41:11.803 --> 01:41:14.423
You just got to know when to switch flexibility between what's right.

01:41:15.583 --> 01:41:18.303
Cool. Hell yeah. Hell yeah.

01:41:20.123 --> 01:41:25.423
Any other closing remarks? This other one's not because the HVAC is fixed.

01:41:25.803 --> 01:41:31.243
So any other question answered. Yeah, the answer is it's already fixed for this

01:41:31.243 --> 01:41:33.643
last one. So I'm not going to even ask you that one.

01:41:34.283 --> 01:41:39.063
Not like you have control over it anyways. But, you know, they did ask that

01:41:39.063 --> 01:41:41.903
for some reason. Psychologists have a separate question.

01:41:42.323 --> 01:41:45.923
I don't know why they're asking the supposedly random psychologist about the

01:41:45.923 --> 01:41:47.623
HVAC. How did you feel about the HVAC?

01:41:48.243 --> 01:41:52.103
How did the HVAC make you feel? I liked it when it worked. Yeah, yeah.

01:41:53.587 --> 01:41:58.187
Hell yeah. Cool. It was good. That was awesome. Yeah. Any closing remarks?

01:41:58.647 --> 01:42:02.207
No, that was fun. I appreciate you. Have me on. Oh, we appreciate you coming out.

01:42:02.887 --> 01:42:06.147
We made sure to keep John fed too beforehand.

01:42:06.527 --> 01:42:09.847
So we don't want him dropping out of the ultra heavyweight weight class.

01:42:09.847 --> 01:42:11.367
I don't think we're going to do that. I'm very worried about that.

01:42:11.567 --> 01:42:13.007
You can work your way to his weight class.

01:42:13.367 --> 01:42:18.067
That's why I'm trying to feed him. Mike is an honorary heavyweight because I will tell you this.

01:42:18.347 --> 01:42:22.887
So we have a chat group of guys over 200 that started because it was sometimes

01:42:22.887 --> 01:42:26.527
it just wasn't fun to train unless one of them were there. There used to be no heavyweights.

01:42:26.807 --> 01:42:28.707
When I first got to know him, he was the only guy who'd come in.

01:42:28.847 --> 01:42:31.787
He would always jump in to train with the heavyweights.

01:42:31.987 --> 01:42:35.187
And Mike's like one of the smaller guys in the gym. And so in my phone,

01:42:35.327 --> 01:42:36.787
he's heavyweight Mike Sully. Yeah.

01:42:37.687 --> 01:42:41.167
I, there, yeah, because there was a time when there were, in the,

01:42:41.247 --> 01:42:45.947
in the, the before times, when there were like two heavyweights in the morning.

01:42:46.127 --> 01:42:47.847
It was like me and Ollie and Perry.

01:42:48.087 --> 01:42:51.587
Yeah. That was it. So we started the chat group like, are you going to train today?

01:42:51.767 --> 01:42:55.067
Because if not, i'm not coming yeah and now

01:42:55.067 --> 01:42:57.747
it's like now it's mostly all heavyweights in

01:42:57.747 --> 01:43:00.727
the morning and you and me yeah so eat

01:43:00.727 --> 01:43:03.527
up eat the eat those uh bagels bro yeah like so some

01:43:03.527 --> 01:43:08.307
days we'll have like it'll be 50 50 and then other days it'll be like all heavyweights

01:43:08.307 --> 01:43:13.687
and like two that's awesome or sometimes it's all heavyweights and meat so the

01:43:13.687 --> 01:43:18.427
way it should be it's great so you know the secret battlefield is secretly the

01:43:18.427 --> 01:43:21.607
uh thick boy center of excellence yes the thick boy center of excellence So

01:43:21.607 --> 01:43:22.967
if you're a big guy, join Battlefield.

01:43:23.427 --> 01:43:25.887
It's where we make champions out of big people.

01:43:26.587 --> 01:43:31.287
That's true. Asim did say that we should take a picture one day with all of

01:43:31.287 --> 01:43:38.127
you guys and me and then turn us into the Monstars from Space Jam.

01:43:39.567 --> 01:43:44.387
So I like that. I guess that makes me Marvin the Martian. Yeah.

01:43:45.331 --> 01:43:50.491
Whatever that means. But yeah, so thank you, John, for coming on the show.

01:43:51.471 --> 01:43:55.551
I mean, heck, we got an hour and 45 minutes in. It's good stuff.

01:43:55.811 --> 01:43:58.691
We probably could have, if we, good thing, it's actually probably a good thing

01:43:58.691 --> 01:44:01.691
we didn't go down the cult pathway. This would be like a three-hour episode.

01:44:01.951 --> 01:44:06.031
We could probably do like a listener, like, hey, ask a psychologist,

01:44:06.231 --> 01:44:09.231
like call-in segment with people with John once a month. We could get some good stuff.

01:44:09.591 --> 01:44:11.811
Oh, actually, that'd be pretty sweet. Once a quarter. I mean,

01:44:11.971 --> 01:44:13.891
honestly, once a month, whatever.

01:44:14.151 --> 01:44:18.631
We could even do like the Q&A and then like I could get a question I could even

01:44:18.631 --> 01:44:22.491
if he can't make it out I could just ask him and get a question and an answer

01:44:22.491 --> 01:44:26.751
and just have it ready to read like mailbag style hell yeah I love grappling

01:44:26.751 --> 01:44:30.451
I love psychology so this is it's rare that they I get to like talk to people

01:44:30.451 --> 01:44:33.151
it's such a it stuff calls out like it challenges the mind so much man,

01:44:33.818 --> 01:44:36.518
I love being a psychologist. I love psychology. I do.

01:44:36.818 --> 01:44:43.058
I feel like I now have an additional edge understanding it just a little bit

01:44:43.058 --> 01:44:45.918
better after that. This has got to be at least one college credit course.

01:44:46.898 --> 01:44:52.098
I'll sign off. I was an adjunct professor for a while. Can we just sell this

01:44:52.098 --> 01:44:54.838
episode to George Mason University?

01:44:55.138 --> 01:44:57.598
Just because they're the closest one. Just make some calls. Hey,

01:44:57.758 --> 01:44:59.638
just make people listen to this.

01:44:59.978 --> 01:45:04.278
And just give us the money and we'll pay John. Yeah. Maybe.

01:45:04.678 --> 01:45:07.898
Pay me biscuits. We'll pay him. We'll pay him. Hell yeah. Done.

01:45:08.178 --> 01:45:11.958
You all heard it here. He works for biscuits and Tillamook ice cream.

01:45:12.218 --> 01:45:14.578
Oh, man. That's my dream job. Is that what the government pays you?

01:45:14.978 --> 01:45:16.518
Do they pay for other things?

01:45:19.178 --> 01:45:26.198
That's great. But yeah, so maybe we'll do that. Send us more questions for John, guys.

01:45:26.378 --> 01:45:28.298
Just drop those in the Discord.

01:45:28.758 --> 01:45:32.718
I've been forgetting to plug that. But join the Discord. Drop us questions for

01:45:32.718 --> 01:45:35.438
John. We'll make sure he gets them and he answers them.

01:45:35.858 --> 01:45:41.118
And then we'll give him biscuits and ice cream. And then you can also reach

01:45:41.118 --> 01:45:44.358
out to us on Instagram with any questions and any other questions.

01:45:44.358 --> 01:45:48.298
So it doesn't have to just be for John, guys, because we will turn them into

01:45:48.298 --> 01:45:50.718
topics or at least answer them in an episode.

01:45:51.978 --> 01:45:55.818
So, you know, you can slide into the DMs, drop us some questions.

01:45:55.878 --> 01:45:58.138
You can hit us up in the Discord.

01:45:59.938 --> 01:46:02.558
So those are the two ways, I guess, you can get it. if you

01:46:02.558 --> 01:46:05.738
have our numbers some of you do you can text us with

01:46:05.738 --> 01:46:09.178
questions that's fine um and other

01:46:09.178 --> 01:46:12.218
than that five stars drop some

01:46:12.218 --> 01:46:18.118
comments on the show uh listen to it like on everything that you can that's

01:46:18.118 --> 01:46:26.078
cool too pump those numbers baby um and other than that let's see like subscribe

01:46:26.078 --> 01:46:30.378
stars comments discord comments

01:46:30.811 --> 01:46:36.451
think that's it so keep listening guys thank you very much love you bye.