May 5, 2026

Welcoming Women on the Mats: Gym Culture, Safety, and How to be a Better Training Partner (Episode 61)

Welcoming Women on the Mats: Gym Culture, Safety, and How to be a Better Training Partner (Episode 61)
Welcoming Women on the Mats: Gym Culture, Safety, and How to be a Better Training Partner (Episode 61)
Fighters Drinking Coffee
Welcoming Women on the Mats: Gym Culture, Safety, and How to be a Better Training Partner (Episode 61)
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This episode is coming to you from the road, where we were still joined by Andrea and Kate, while enroute to the Chicago Open.

on this episode we discussed training with men vs. women, the value of bigger training partners for building physicality, but the unique benefit of female partners when you want a realistic look at your weight class. We also dive into the mindset of women who train by discussing the experiences of Kate and Andrea on the mats, looking at how men and other members of the gym can be better at creating a comfortable space for women in the gym.

We get into gym culture and leadership and why top-down behavior sets the tone, how leaders need to be open to feedback, and practical ways communities can police themselves so problematic behavior doesn’t fester.

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00:05 - Introduction from the Road

00:38 - Women in a Male-Dominated Sport

04:11 - Training Dynamics: Men vs. Women

06:25 - The Mental Game of Sparring

08:41 - Overcoming Initial Barriers

10:59 - Relationships on the Mat

13:15 - The Importance of Safe Training Partners

16:10 - Feedback and Communication

21:22 - Red Flags in Training Partners

23:44 - Selecting the Right Gym

26:44 - Building Women’s Jiu-Jitsu Culture

29:41 - The Exciting World of Female Competitions

35:04 - Addressing Sensitive Topics

37:31 - Handling Allegations in Jiu-Jitsu

42:42 - The Challenge of Giving Feedback

45:52 - Creating a Comfortable Environment

52:28 - The Role of Leadership in Culture

56:19 - Community as an Immune System

01:00:55 - Final Thoughts on Jiu-Jitsu

01:01:41 - Closing Remarks and Promotion

WEBVTT

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Today's episode of Fires Drinking Coffee comes to you from the road.

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We were traveling en route to the Chicago Spring Open once again, same thing.

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But we were discussing what it was like for the women in the car getting into

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jiu-jitsu. It was a great conversation.

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I hope you guys enjoy it. And if you would like to support the show,

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check out our Patreon, patreon.com slash Fires Drinking Coffee podcast. Enjoy the show.

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Say it again

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Fuck that guy yeah fuck that guy welcome to fighters drinking coffee

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Uh so prior to hitting record

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we were discussing uh the after

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scandal um well not even

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just that we were discussing creepy black belts

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and stuff like that uh because we are lucky enough to

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have two women here to give us their

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takes on being a woman in a male dominated sport

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male dominated training rooms

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things like that uh we are still

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on the road so if you hear angry road rage

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occur outside our windows it won't be scott scott's

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cool level-headed uh but

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if you hear some uh if you hear

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some some shit shit going down it's just

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other people on the road we're on a highway so um but

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we did want to talk about uh i

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did want to talk to you guys find out more we don't have to talk about like

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weird shit if you don't want to but i do

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want to know but i do want to like get started with uh what

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it's like i'm sure you guys have been in a training room with

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where you're the only woman i know andrea

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has because i've been in the training room where she's the only woman um you

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know what what's what kind of challenges roadblocks or lack thereof or you know

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especially when you're getting started what that's like so uh who wants to go

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first raise your hand uh andrews yeah i

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Feel like i have actually always

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been really fortunate in my all-male training rooms because it's like,

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Two of my most common training partners in those rooms are in the car,

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in the front seat right now.

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And so, like, I've had male teammates and training partners who are really good

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at, like, kind of, like, reading the pace of a round and being able to give

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me, like, really good challenging looks without going insane, basically.

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Which I don't think every woman in jiu-jitsu is necessarily lucky enough to have.

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But I think, like, the room that we've been in has been, like, very well controlled.

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Um it's good vibes in general um that

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said i think i've been equally lucky to also make a lot

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of connections with other female competitors in the

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community so like i get a lot of value out of like co-ed and all-male training

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rooms um like honestly i think most women in jiu-jitsu have to contend with

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being like one of only one or two women on the mats in a lot of situations just

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because it It is such a male-dominated sport.

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And, like, you can get a lot of value out of that, like, if you have good male training partners.

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But I do think that it is very important to counterbalance that with having

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very skillful female training partners as well. It's harder to seek out and harder to find.

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But I've been really lucky. Shout out to Beatrice Jin over at Kagayan Academy,

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Maya Madelon over at High Noon, who both run really incredible,

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like, all-female training rooms with a lot of really great competitors.

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And that's just fundamentally going to give you a different look and it's going

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to give you a more realistic look for female competitors at what your own division

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your own weight class is going to feel like so it's great to scrap with the

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guys I think you can learn a lot from that but I think especially when you're

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like leading up to specific competitions you're in training camp you really,

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benefit from having women and specifically like women who are like within one

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or two weight classes of you to just like kind of be able to give you that feel

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from your actual opponents.

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Andrea, can I ask you a question real fast? Yes. We're going over to Kate.

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Yeah. And Kate, you can respond to this too, but I'd be curious to know if you think,

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If you were to contrast, and there's a lot of ways to train in body types that

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extract versions of how we train this martial arts, but if you put,

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let's just say for the sake of conversation,

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two simple labels for the women's comp, you can apply this to the men's comp

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too, but let's just say training women, training with men.

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Would you say there's like a difference of like one's like clearly more applicable

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for like your competition environment and one might be more like,

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even if it is a training session, but like dudes, is it more like a self-defense?

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Like I got to really use a martial art differently than like a sport?

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Yeah.

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Does that make sense, that question?

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Yeah, a hundred percent. I will. Yeah. I feel like when I'm training with male partners,

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it's like it's I think it's still as application to like a competitive setting,

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but it's a little bit more like entering an absolute division where you're going

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in with the given that like 95% of the time your training partner is just going

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to be like a little bigger and stronger than you and sometimes a lot bigger and stronger than you.

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And you kind of have to modify your mindset and your strategy accordingly versus

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going into the all-female training room where you're likely to get like a look

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that's more similar to your weight class division.

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But yeah, no, I would agree. Like, I think that like part of

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the value of training with like good male partners is

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just like getting used to dealing with somebody who just has

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that extra bit of physicality behind them even when

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they are like holding back some of it like there's like if

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somebody's bigger than you there's only so much they can do to like curtail

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being bigger than you and that is just like weight that you're gonna

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have to develop the physicality yourself and the technique to to carry and handle

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impact from um and obviously you want to limit that going like when you're kind

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of tapering down for an actual tournament like i'm probably not gonna be getting

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a ton of rolls with like 200 pound dudes if i'm going into like the lightweight

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women's division of an IBJJF tournament.

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But, you know, those those looks from like bigger dudes in a more controlled

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setting can also be a good way of sort of building up endurance and building

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up like jujitsu specifics. Right.

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Yeah. I'm also used to being the only girl in the room. There's a

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fundamentally different mindset that I have when I'm rolling with guys versus

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when I'm rolling with women.

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When I'm rolling with guys, it almost feels more fun. You have to be more technical.

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In my mind, there's always going to be, okay, but they're a guy.

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If I lose this round, if I don't nail this, if I can't move them,

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if I can't move around them, in my brain, I'm like, oh, well, of course not.

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It's easier to make excuses for yourself.

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So it's really easy to make excuses. And then you stuck on the mat in a room

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full of women and you're like, okay, I should be able to perform really well here.

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And then it gets just so intimidating. I'm like, oh, but what if I don't? Where's my cop out?

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And so getting on the mat at like a women's open mat or even rolling with a

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new woman who comes to the gym for the first time,

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it's really intimidating to not know what you're stepping into,

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not know what their skill level is and have to like, gauge that in real time

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and react which when you're getting ready for a competition is really good because

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you never know what's going to happen when you step on the mat and start competing like

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just completely unknown.

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Yeah, no, I agree with that 100%. It's like a very different toll on your ego

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when you've been submitted multiple times by the like light feather female black

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belt world champion that you outweigh by like 10 to 20 pounds versus getting

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like submitted left and right by like a black,

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like a male black belt who's like bigger and stronger than you are.

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It's just like both are very humbling experiences.

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But like, it just feels very different in that round.

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Like, it's much easier for as i at least in my

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opinion and i think kate agrees with me as like a female competitor

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to like kind of have that excuse in the back of your mind when you're

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rolling with all men it's like oh i'm the only girl like it is

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what it is like i'm yeah of course i'm gonna get beaten up and flattened out

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uh but when you're getting beaten up and flattened out by other women you're

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like okay i don't really have a cop out here there's clearly something either

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on like either technically or physically that i need to fix in my game so yeah um.

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So kind of on a similar note with that like mental aspect right you're able

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to get the idea of being able to like almost excuse performance right because

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of the um the difference in body type strength whatever um with men versus women, right?

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When you first stepped into jujitsu and were first trying it out,

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what do you think was the biggest barrier or like mental block or whatever with

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going into a room that was mostly men training and like how was it,

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what was it like getting into that,

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like getting started, stepping on the mat for the first time?

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You know, if you can remember, what was going through your head?

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I think it was like a physical adaptation of just getting used,

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frankly, to like carrying the weight of like a bigger, stronger person in such close proximity.

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Because I had like grown up in traditional martial arts, so I wasn't like unfamiliar

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with playing like a contact sport with men, with women.

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But there's like there's like because most traditional martial arts involve

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kind of more of a striking foundation, like there's like a distance that you

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can keep there that isn't really present when you're full on just wrestling

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with somebody and engaging in a submission grappling match.

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And getting stuck under side control for five minutes at a time with someone way heavier than you.

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And I think they're like, I was having a lot of fun with it.

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I was again, I was really fortunate in my experiences that I had really good

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training partners who didn't just like, smash me left and right without like

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explaining what they were doing. Like they gave me a chance to work.

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They like gave me they helped me develop my skills so that I could actually learn.

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But still, like there is that physical adaptation of like, okay,

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like my body's not used to being crushed under this amount of weight.

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Like, you know, it's yes, I have to develop I had to develop technical skill.

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But honestly, like getting really into competitive jujitsu was also that coincided

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when I started getting really just more serious about like real strength training,

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because I had to like kind of armor up my joints in order to take that kind

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of impact in a way that I don't think was as necessary in other sports that I had played for.

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But yeah, I'd be interested in Kate's perspective because you were you started

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out as a muay thai competitor so take it away.

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Yeah my first jujitsu class ever

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was actually the week that i was supposed to

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not be working out before my first muay thai

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fight um i was looking for something to do that would just get me moving but

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i wasn't supposed to be striking that week so i went to a noon gi class um not

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one of yours unfortunately and i walked in i remember the coach going looking

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at me like what are you doing here Like, I don't know. Um,

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I think the hardest thing getting on the mat is you don't really know the end goal of jiu-jitsu.

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You can see people rolling and they just kind of look like they're rolling and

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you don't know what their goal is.

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So when you walk in and you start with a flow roll or something like that,

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you don't know the positions. You don't know what your goal is.

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You don't know how to do any joint locks. You don't know how to do any chokes.

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And so you need to find someone early on who has the patience to explain some of the basics to you.

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I also got super lucky there that my husband had been doing jujitsu for a year before me.

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So even in a room full of men, I had someone who maybe was forced to take the

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time to explain things to me early on.

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But he's still one of my favorite training partners.

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Was he happy that you decided to switch over to doing jujitsu and that you like

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kind of like got bitten by the bug? Like had you been pushing it for a while?

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I think so. At the gym, we were very frequently ships passing in the night of

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I would be rolling out of Muay Thai class as he was rolling into Jiu Jitsu class.

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But as we started both going to the same things and rolling together more,

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I think he's gotten a lot more excited about it.

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He's subscribed to BJJ Fanatics and things like that.

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Gets all the YouTube videos coming through as recommended.

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And he'll pull me aside and be like, we need to try this right now.

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We have mats in our basement.

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Um we do not have cushy enough mats to practice takedowns or some of the fun

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judo throws that we might want to but we have just enough space to drill the

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silly moves so we don't try them for the first time in a live roll and get somebody hurt

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So that's, that's actually kind of fun. I know, um, there's a lot of,

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I mean, you guys are already in a relationship.

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I know there's a lot of controversy around like relationships on the mats and

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like, um, I know that can get weird. It sounds like it's working for you guys though.

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Like the whole jujitsu shared experience, but especially, I guess,

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since you guys have been doing it for a very similar amount of time that you're

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both like experiencing, like learning jujitsu together.

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So I imagine that, uh, that makes it, and it sounds like you are Like you get

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to have the joy of learning together.

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Yeah. And I also in the year before I started that he was doing jujitsu,

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there were a lot of days that I would just go and sit and watch the classes,

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which I do think helped me pick up the sport a little bit faster than I would

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have otherwise because I'm watching them.

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So I know the words and the kind of positions that go along with them.

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I might not know how to do it and I might not know how to chain things together

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yet. But when I first started, I at least had a little bit more context than

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maybe somebody who walks in off the street to try their first class.

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Oh, I do have a question for you. Speaking of which, kind of going back to like

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how you were in Muay Thai, he was in jujitsu before you kind of started crossing

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over to the dark side over here.

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Muay Thai is also a male dominated full contact combat sport.

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It's like I think there are probably more women in it than there are in jujitsu,

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but it is still like heavily like a tough guy sport.

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Have you as like a female competitor in both disciplines noticed any differences

00:14:20.558 --> 00:14:24.778
in math culture in terms of gender dynamics in Muay Thai versus jujitsu?

00:14:25.985 --> 00:14:31.945
Maybe a little bit. They're very similar in the terms of you'll have people

00:14:31.945 --> 00:14:38.225
who are going to be good partners and you'll find your safe partners to go with in those sports.

00:14:39.465 --> 00:14:46.405
You know, you'll either spar or roll with somebody new and you'll learn a little

00:14:46.405 --> 00:14:50.405
bit about their mindset and decide if that's someone you want to continue to work with or not.

00:14:51.645 --> 00:14:57.985
But Muay Thai, especially sparring, can feel a little bit more playful than Jiu Jitsu rolling.

00:14:58.385 --> 00:15:02.305
Maybe it's because you can, you know, kind of step in, back out,

00:15:02.725 --> 00:15:04.225
decide, like take your time.

00:15:05.365 --> 00:15:09.965
Nobody actually has their hands on you the entire time and is controlling where

00:15:09.965 --> 00:15:11.105
you are and where you can go.

00:15:11.325 --> 00:15:15.325
So with Jiu Jitsu, your survival instincts kick in a little bit more.

00:15:16.865 --> 00:15:19.925
Someone sitting on you, holding you down. I've been stuck in bottom side control

00:15:19.925 --> 00:15:21.525
for more minutes than I can count.

00:15:22.665 --> 00:15:26.845
But both of them, I think it's all about the partners that you end up with.

00:15:27.465 --> 00:15:31.985
I've definitely cut some people out of, you know, sparring training because

00:15:31.985 --> 00:15:37.885
they aren't ready to tone things down or pick things up at a cadence that I need.

00:15:38.645 --> 00:15:42.865
You've both mentioned like safe training partners.

00:15:44.465 --> 00:15:48.045
So what what are things that

00:15:48.045 --> 00:15:51.025
you look for in your male training

00:15:51.025 --> 00:15:53.785
partners to that make you feel more

00:15:53.785 --> 00:15:56.505
comfortable rolling with them and like what

00:15:56.505 --> 00:15:59.765
kind of i'm we will eventually get to what you don't look for but i want to

00:15:59.765 --> 00:16:06.805
start with this um and what kind of things do what can what can men in the sport

00:16:06.805 --> 00:16:12.345
do to make women feel more comfortable rolling with them or training with them

00:16:12.345 --> 00:16:15.685
drilling with them raise your hand whoever wants to go first

00:16:16.523 --> 00:16:19.763
I think, honestly, like this doesn't just go for men. It goes for like I've

00:16:19.763 --> 00:16:21.263
encountered this with other women as well.

00:16:21.463 --> 00:16:26.123
I think just like getting comfortable and confident and matching the pace of

00:16:26.123 --> 00:16:28.743
your training partner, because I think like men and women alike,

00:16:28.823 --> 00:16:32.023
I think we've all had that experience where like you're having like a chill

00:16:32.023 --> 00:16:36.083
round with somebody and then like they start exploding on you out of nowhere.

00:16:36.083 --> 00:16:40.463
And like, and I think that can get kind of dangerous if like you don't see that coming.

00:16:40.903 --> 00:16:44.343
And like often it comes from somebody who's like a little bit less experienced

00:16:44.343 --> 00:16:46.563
in the sport, they don't necessarily know what they're doing.

00:16:47.083 --> 00:16:51.423
And they're they're panicking. So they just they just start going into like white belt spaz mode.

00:16:52.523 --> 00:16:57.263
But like, I think like, with women, because we are often like smaller and lighter

00:16:57.263 --> 00:17:00.523
and like less physically powerful than our male training partners,

00:17:00.663 --> 00:17:03.323
it's a little bit more dangerous for us. so it's something that we might be

00:17:03.323 --> 00:17:06.643
a little bit more aware of and might clock a little earlier on.

00:17:06.763 --> 00:17:09.643
And if somebody is going to be kind of unpredictable in that way,

00:17:09.803 --> 00:17:14.003
we might just choose to wait until they've gotten a little bit more experience,

00:17:14.003 --> 00:17:17.203
or we might choose to roll with them in a very specific way.

00:17:17.463 --> 00:17:21.623
I think Kate and I have both had the experience of just holding somebody down

00:17:21.623 --> 00:17:25.363
in closed guard or hanging onto the back for the entire round just because it's

00:17:25.363 --> 00:17:26.703
like, all right, you're going nuts.

00:17:27.503 --> 00:17:30.443
You're not going so nuts that I feel like I'm about to get injured,

00:17:30.443 --> 00:17:34.403
but you are going nuts enough that like I think I just need to like be in a

00:17:34.403 --> 00:17:39.043
safe spot here and just wait out the rest of the round uh okay you look like

00:17:39.043 --> 00:17:39.783
you want to say something.

00:17:39.783 --> 00:17:42.903
No but in the middle of the round too like

00:17:42.903 --> 00:17:46.203
I think one of the more important things with a training partner is on both

00:17:46.203 --> 00:17:49.903
sides being receptive to feedback if you can't look at your partner and tell

00:17:49.903 --> 00:17:53.903
them you're going a little bit too hard right now please don't do that I have

00:17:53.903 --> 00:17:58.203
an injury you know my elbows hurt my wrist is hurt please don't you know throw

00:17:58.203 --> 00:18:00.383
a wrist lock on that arm throw an arm bar on that arm.

00:18:01.123 --> 00:18:05.043
If they say okay, and then proceed to immediately throw the arm bar on that

00:18:05.043 --> 00:18:09.023
arm, because they know you have a weakness, not going to be a training partner I look towards again.

00:18:09.799 --> 00:18:13.199
Yeah, my favorite is also like almost like the inverse of that when they tell

00:18:13.199 --> 00:18:17.419
you that they're hurt and like you think they need to go and like at a flow

00:18:17.419 --> 00:18:21.239
pace and then they immediately go balls to the wall on you.

00:18:22.039 --> 00:18:26.299
But, you know, I feel like we don't talk enough about like using our words in jujitsu.

00:18:26.439 --> 00:18:28.719
We expect everybody to read each other's minds. And to some extent,

00:18:28.839 --> 00:18:32.739
if you're experienced, like I said earlier, you can like kind of get good at

00:18:32.739 --> 00:18:34.519
matching the pace of who you're going with.

00:18:35.619 --> 00:18:40.239
But like failing that like you can just ask like hey am I going too hard do

00:18:40.239 --> 00:18:43.359
you want me to turn it up a little you want me to dial it back and I don't think

00:18:43.359 --> 00:18:46.779
that should be quite as much of a taboo as it seems to be sometimes.

00:18:46.779 --> 00:18:51.999
Yeah and I have a couple of training partners who are a good amount bigger than

00:18:51.999 --> 00:18:55.779
me who in the middle of a round halfway through a round you know if we end up

00:18:55.779 --> 00:18:58.879
with a submission and start over there like is the pressure too much am I doing

00:18:58.879 --> 00:19:03.939
okay anything you want me to tone down and asking for that feedback in the middle is also helpful.

00:19:04.679 --> 00:19:09.239
There's not always a perfect opportunity for that, but when they do, I appreciate it.

00:19:10.096 --> 00:19:17.236
Kind of a related question to this. Do you think there is such thing as like

00:19:17.236 --> 00:19:23.576
going almost too light or like light to the point where it's almost insulting?

00:19:23.996 --> 00:19:29.876
I don't take it as insulting so much, but there is definitely a too light where

00:19:29.876 --> 00:19:35.236
they might be kind of starfishing on the floor or just letting you throw their legs around.

00:19:35.496 --> 00:19:39.816
And as somebody who trains for competition, but also for life.

00:19:39.836 --> 00:19:43.136
That's just not realistic for anything I'm going to face.

00:19:43.376 --> 00:19:47.516
There's not going to be anybody except for this one person right now doing this

00:19:47.516 --> 00:19:53.016
drill who is going to let me move them in that way. So I'm not getting anything out of it.

00:19:53.416 --> 00:19:57.336
I know that I'm not doing it the way it's quote unquote supposed to be done

00:19:57.336 --> 00:20:01.016
because I'm not getting the resistance that I would actually expect to be getting.

00:20:01.516 --> 00:20:06.436
So question coming off of that, do you feel as comfortable telling someone in

00:20:06.436 --> 00:20:10.076
that situation like hey would you mind turning it up a little as you would telling

00:20:10.076 --> 00:20:12.816
somebody who's going too hard hey would you mind turning it down a little.

00:20:12.816 --> 00:20:15.496
Absolutely i will always be like

00:20:15.496 --> 00:20:20.956
you can give a little more resistance like not as maybe not being accusatory

00:20:20.956 --> 00:20:25.416
of being like you're being a starfish i will say that to my husband but everybody

00:20:25.416 --> 00:20:28.636
else i'll just ask you could give me a little bit more resistance if you want

00:20:28.636 --> 00:20:33.536
and let them if they're comfortable do it otherwise you know, it is what it is.

00:20:33.696 --> 00:20:38.396
Maybe they're a little overwhelmed. Maybe they just need to work on something else. So be it.

00:20:38.836 --> 00:20:42.076
I have a lot of time on the mat. I will have more time on the mat.

00:20:42.336 --> 00:20:45.216
This five minutes isn't going to make or break me, hopefully.

00:20:46.510 --> 00:20:49.250
And on the opposite side of this, you touched on it a little bit,

00:20:49.370 --> 00:20:57.910
but what do you, what are some like big red flags for training partners?

00:20:58.210 --> 00:21:04.610
This can be male or female, but what are some big red flags that you see in

00:21:04.610 --> 00:21:06.390
a training partner, either mid-roll

00:21:06.390 --> 00:21:12.670
or prior to a role, when it comes to training in the jiu-jitsu room?

00:21:13.470 --> 00:21:16.310
Um i think like going off what kate and i were talking

00:21:16.310 --> 00:21:19.530
about earlier like the biggest one is just like not taking verbal

00:21:19.530 --> 00:21:22.390
feedback like it's one thing if like maybe you're

00:21:22.390 --> 00:21:25.310
a little less experienced and you can't quite read the room or like

00:21:25.310 --> 00:21:28.490
the physicality of your training partner that's not necessarily your fault but

00:21:28.490 --> 00:21:32.830
if i verbally told you like hey can you please not like rip submissions like

00:21:32.830 --> 00:21:37.470
that can you you know dial back some of your pressure and you're still not listening

00:21:37.470 --> 00:21:40.470
and you're going just as hard as you were before then that's a sign to me that

00:21:40.470 --> 00:21:42.690
you can't listen to basic instructions, right?

00:21:42.850 --> 00:21:46.050
And I'm going to respectfully decline that role for my own safety.

00:21:46.950 --> 00:21:50.990
I think that's like the biggest thing. Probably the second biggest thing is

00:21:50.990 --> 00:21:52.470
watching how they roll with other people.

00:21:52.570 --> 00:21:56.250
So if you see somebody who's going way too hard on other people in the training room,

00:21:56.490 --> 00:21:59.950
especially if there's like a difference in how they roll with like smaller versus

00:21:59.950 --> 00:22:04.710
bigger people where like they're like ripping stuff on way smaller people,

00:22:04.890 --> 00:22:07.470
but being more respectful of people who are their size or bigger,

00:22:07.650 --> 00:22:09.950
it kind of tells you something about their intentions, right?

00:22:10.190 --> 00:22:14.870
And like, you maybe if you are smaller than them, you maybe don't want to get

00:22:14.870 --> 00:22:17.750
involved in that whole mess and whatever it is that they're going through.

00:22:18.150 --> 00:22:21.610
But yeah, the biggest thing for me is like, can they listen to like,

00:22:21.710 --> 00:22:23.790
what I am verbally telling them?

00:22:24.370 --> 00:22:27.170
Because everything else is like somewhat negotiable. And there's like,

00:22:27.350 --> 00:22:29.650
there's like, there's a margin for error there.

00:22:29.790 --> 00:22:32.950
But if I like tell you something and you do it anyway, that tells me that you

00:22:32.950 --> 00:22:33.850
don't respect boundaries.

00:22:34.871 --> 00:22:35.451
I think the,

00:22:35.651 --> 00:22:40.331
If not the biggest thing for me, but maybe the second biggest, hygiene. Oh, yeah.

00:22:41.191 --> 00:22:44.451
Please wash your geese. If you're doing two classes back to back,

00:22:44.791 --> 00:22:47.691
pack a clean rash guard, maybe wipe yourself off after.

00:22:48.851 --> 00:22:52.771
There was a little bit of a difference level in how much the guys and the girls sweat.

00:22:52.891 --> 00:22:56.871
And it becomes very apparent when you're rolling with a girl who did the class

00:22:56.871 --> 00:23:00.331
before versus a guy who did the class before, a guy who's fresh,

00:23:00.511 --> 00:23:03.371
a girl who's fresh. Wash your geese, please.

00:23:05.191 --> 00:23:08.431
Psa and if you don't think

00:23:08.431 --> 00:23:11.271
anyone else smells it's probably because you're the one that smells by

00:23:11.271 --> 00:23:15.191
the way um on a let's

00:23:15.191 --> 00:23:18.391
step a little bit back from the mats and look

00:23:18.391 --> 00:23:25.191
at uh the entirety of the gym right like the space the facilities are there

00:23:25.191 --> 00:23:33.931
things that you uh prefer or find um draw you to specific gyms with the way

00:23:33.931 --> 00:23:37.011
that the facilities are set up or the culture surrounding it?

00:23:38.231 --> 00:23:41.911
And if so, what might those things be?

00:23:42.982 --> 00:23:48.422
I'd say two of the biggest ones for me. One is you can see that there is a group

00:23:48.422 --> 00:23:51.722
of women who are there and who are there consistently.

00:23:52.602 --> 00:23:57.322
If they have a women's only class that helps get women in the door and kind

00:23:57.322 --> 00:24:01.182
of introduce them to things in a less intimidating environment, that's fantastic.

00:24:01.562 --> 00:24:05.582
But I'd say some of my closest friends now have come from the gym.

00:24:05.782 --> 00:24:07.522
I love going back to see them.

00:24:08.482 --> 00:24:12.742
Um you can always know that you can spend time with them both on the mats and

00:24:12.742 --> 00:24:18.262
that they'll actually be friends outside of it um and then the other is in terms

00:24:18.262 --> 00:24:19.382
of gym facilities themselves

00:24:20.802 --> 00:24:26.762
there's not a lot of gyms that have like separate changing locker room areas

00:24:26.762 --> 00:24:30.682
for men and women i have been to a few that have them and when they do it's

00:24:30.682 --> 00:24:34.182
really nice to be able to have like a door that closes and locks all the way

00:24:34.182 --> 00:24:37.542
instead of being expected to change out in the open

00:24:38.582 --> 00:24:41.702
in an area that there's going to be all kinds of eyes on you.

00:24:42.613 --> 00:24:45.393
Yeah, I would also say revisiting an earlier point,

00:24:45.493 --> 00:24:50.113
Hygiene is a huge thing. If I don't see the mats getting like wiped down fairly

00:24:50.113 --> 00:24:52.993
regularly, that's going to be an ick for me.

00:24:53.733 --> 00:24:57.233
I do not want a fungal infection. Thank you very much. Like you could have the

00:24:57.233 --> 00:25:00.853
best jujitsu in the world. For me, it's not worth getting staff over.

00:25:02.213 --> 00:25:06.373
And in addition to that, I would say that I kind of look to the leadership in the room.

00:25:06.493 --> 00:25:10.373
Also, I think you can tell a lot about the mat culture based on how the coaches conduct themselves.

00:25:10.373 --> 00:25:13.193
So like i have like i've been really lucky

00:25:13.193 --> 00:25:15.973
with most of the gyms that i visited and that they've been

00:25:15.973 --> 00:25:18.833
really welcoming the coaches have had good vibes the mat and

00:25:18.833 --> 00:25:21.813
the folks who roll there in general have had good vibes

00:25:21.813 --> 00:25:24.673
but i've also heard stories from friends in the community who

00:25:24.673 --> 00:25:28.733
have visited gyms that were like kind of unfriendly and where like the coaches

00:25:28.733 --> 00:25:33.173
would regularly like yell at their students and not in the like hey like let's

00:25:33.173 --> 00:25:36.273
push the pace a little bit more in that like encouraging way where but where

00:25:36.273 --> 00:25:39.413
they would like literally just like dress down their adult students and start

00:25:39.413 --> 00:25:43.313
like tearing into that publicly in front of their teammates, not cool. Right.

00:25:43.533 --> 00:25:47.633
Like, so like if that's something I haven't personally witnessed,

00:25:47.793 --> 00:25:49.853
but I imagine if I did, it would make me feel uncomfortable.

00:25:50.193 --> 00:25:53.933
So like, I think like the leadership at the head of the room kind of informs

00:25:53.933 --> 00:25:55.933
the culture on the rest of the mat as well.

00:25:57.053 --> 00:26:00.213
Like it um we we had

00:26:00.213 --> 00:26:04.113
talked to uh the unbreakable

00:26:04.113 --> 00:26:07.253
jiu-jitsu camp which is a jiu-jitsu camp for women um

00:26:07.253 --> 00:26:14.073
i believe everywhere youtube both of you have met them um and so carrie and

00:26:14.073 --> 00:26:20.593
mindy over there and they had talked about the culture outside of their own

00:26:20.593 --> 00:26:25.293
gym and how they've expanded and created almost a network of women within the city.

00:26:25.513 --> 00:26:32.533
Um, and how that's actually helped a lot with both the programs at the individual gems,

00:26:32.713 --> 00:26:38.413
the women's programs there, but also just creating like a women's jujitsu culture

00:26:38.413 --> 00:26:42.793
overall, that's able to kind of infiltrate and work its way into all the gyms.

00:26:43.173 --> 00:26:47.713
Um, would you mind telling people about the one that we have there is,

00:26:47.773 --> 00:26:51.733
I know there is a women's open mat and stuff like that, but you mind expanding

00:26:51.733 --> 00:26:56.373
on that women's jujitsu culture in the area that we have?

00:26:57.233 --> 00:27:00.793
Yeah, no, we are really fortunate in that we have several, like,

00:27:01.013 --> 00:27:05.773
world-class female black belt competitors in, like, the D.C., Virginia area.

00:27:06.813 --> 00:27:12.713
We've got, like, black belt adult competitors who have meddled at major events,

00:27:12.713 --> 00:27:18.013
like Maya Madelon, ADCC Trials Champion, Beatrice Jin, won several majors at,

00:27:18.133 --> 00:27:21.193
I believe, at adult black belt, different weight classes.

00:27:22.533 --> 00:27:26.853
Yeah, we've got a bunch of, like, pretty heavy hitters. We've got Nikki Sullivan

00:27:26.853 --> 00:27:30.193
as well, who's also like a legend in the sport.

00:27:31.073 --> 00:27:34.213
And like it helps that, again, like kind of going back to that earlier point

00:27:34.213 --> 00:27:37.673
about like leadership from the front of the room, that all of these are women

00:27:37.673 --> 00:27:41.113
who are not only like great at jujitsu, but like they're also very committed

00:27:41.113 --> 00:27:44.253
to building up the women's side of the sport.

00:27:44.253 --> 00:27:47.693
So you have a lot of like all female rooms where you have the opportunity to

00:27:47.693 --> 00:27:50.953
train with some of the most talented women currently competing.

00:27:50.953 --> 00:27:56.453
And I think as a result, like it brings up the women's programs at gyms throughout

00:27:56.453 --> 00:28:01.513
our area, often because jujitsu is a male dominated sport.

00:28:01.693 --> 00:28:05.293
It's hard for girls at any one gym to always get the training partners that

00:28:05.293 --> 00:28:08.193
they need going into a competition to find somebody at the correct level,

00:28:08.313 --> 00:28:09.473
the correct weight class, etc.

00:28:09.473 --> 00:28:14.353
So often we do find ourselves maybe a little bit more motivated to cross train

00:28:14.353 --> 00:28:17.973
than like some of the men in the sport, just because we want to go out and seek

00:28:17.973 --> 00:28:19.913
partners who can give us that competitive look.

00:28:19.913 --> 00:28:22.813
Um so like as a result i

00:28:22.813 --> 00:28:26.313
think there is like a big cross-training culture among female

00:28:26.313 --> 00:28:29.933
jiu-jitsu athletes especially in our area where like we'll go to women's open

00:28:29.933 --> 00:28:34.453
mats over at kagai and we'll go to the high noon women's comp class um because

00:28:34.453 --> 00:28:40.113
it's a chance for us to to kind of like get that experience of rolling with

00:28:40.113 --> 00:28:45.073
other female competitors um who can really give us a taste of what high

00:28:45.123 --> 00:28:48.583
competition tastes like when we're when we hit the mats and.

00:28:48.583 --> 00:28:52.543
The the competition world for the girls is small enough that you're going to

00:28:52.543 --> 00:28:55.843
run into them and eat against them anyway so you may as well train with them

00:28:55.843 --> 00:28:57.563
to exactly learn from each other

00:28:58.809 --> 00:29:01.929
Actually uh i did see some familiar

00:29:01.929 --> 00:29:04.649
names at the tournament we're going to by the way so i think

00:29:04.649 --> 00:29:08.589
daniel gallin is actually up there uh so

00:29:08.589 --> 00:29:16.849
another member of the northern virginia dmv uh dc area jiu-jitsu scene um so

00:29:16.849 --> 00:29:20.149
i mean yeah it's you you guys are actually pretty lucky to have that many big

00:29:20.149 --> 00:29:22.529
names um and like high level people

00:29:22.529 --> 00:29:26.589
in the area um it definitely makes definitely makes big difference in

00:29:28.426 --> 00:29:37.166
Yeah. But so one other thing on that train of thought before we get into the

00:29:37.166 --> 00:29:42.366
dark world of jujitsu, unless you guys are ready to just get into the dark world of jujitsu.

00:29:43.866 --> 00:29:49.466
But with all of these high level female athletes in the area,

00:29:49.466 --> 00:29:52.426
we actually have like a pretty

00:29:52.426 --> 00:29:55.426
good women's like the super

00:29:55.426 --> 00:29:58.626
fight scene i've got been lucky

00:29:58.626 --> 00:30:02.166
enough to watch some of them and they are like sometimes they're more exciting than

00:30:02.166 --> 00:30:06.086
the men's matches uh specifically the

00:30:06.086 --> 00:30:08.906
uh the nga when they had all

00:30:08.906 --> 00:30:14.146
those tag team nga yeah i'll never forget it man that was amazing um uh that's

00:30:14.146 --> 00:30:20.466
that's still like a highlight uh do you guys have any insights or maybe even

00:30:20.466 --> 00:30:25.966
call outs of women that you would like to take on at some of these events?

00:30:26.086 --> 00:30:27.126
Don't be afraid to cut a promo.

00:30:27.326 --> 00:30:31.146
Do you have any matches you'd like to get back at promos?

00:30:31.326 --> 00:30:37.066
Not necessarily call-outs, but I do think that there are some really cool match-ups in this area.

00:30:37.226 --> 00:30:41.926
I think especially with the tag team events, because we have such a wealth of

00:30:41.926 --> 00:30:45.546
talent in the female community, with the team events in particular,

00:30:45.546 --> 00:30:48.766
you can get some pretty wild cards going.

00:30:48.766 --> 00:30:53.206
I think because it's like three versus three with people like tagging in, tagging out.

00:30:53.626 --> 00:30:57.726
You get a really explosive, dynamic style of jujitsu that you don't often see.

00:30:58.506 --> 00:31:02.746
There isn't really room to stall, especially like in, I believe in NGA,

00:31:02.906 --> 00:31:05.786
it was like, I think that was like in the bowl as well where they had the walls.

00:31:05.806 --> 00:31:06.286
It was in the pit,

00:31:06.386 --> 00:31:09.446
Yeah. Yeah, it was in the pit. So like, you don't really get a lot of reset.

00:31:09.586 --> 00:31:11.926
So it's just, it just ends up being really, really exciting.

00:31:12.926 --> 00:31:16.006
A little bit chaotic, a little bit pro wrestling-esque, but I don't think that's

00:31:16.006 --> 00:31:17.646
necessarily a bad thing for the sport.

00:31:18.875 --> 00:31:23.615
Well, since you don't have any call-outs, Kate, do you have any match-ups you'd like to see?

00:31:24.055 --> 00:31:27.035
So it doesn't have people you want to go against, but are there match-ups that

00:31:27.035 --> 00:31:30.495
you would like to see or watch at an event?

00:31:30.875 --> 00:31:36.755
It's really just an opportunity to shout out people in our area that are great grapplers.

00:31:37.715 --> 00:31:40.275
Yeah. If not, it's okay. We'll move on.

00:31:44.615 --> 00:31:46.575
Yeah, that's a blue belt versus a brown belt.

00:31:48.735 --> 00:31:53.255
Well you guys can think on it while we talk through the some other topics um

00:31:53.255 --> 00:31:59.855
for this i understand it's a sensitive topic so feel free to speak about as

00:31:59.855 --> 00:32:05.275
little as much or we can cut as much oh did you think of one uh before we get into it here we go

00:32:05.275 --> 00:32:11.555
Okay so as of last weekend gwen from kogion academy was competing at the light

00:32:11.555 --> 00:32:15.515
featherweight and i know that our good friend natalie is also planning on competing

00:32:15.515 --> 00:32:17.175
at a light featherweight they're

00:32:17.175 --> 00:32:20.395
Both blue belts i think either.

00:32:20.395 --> 00:32:24.975
A gi or no gi matchup um would be really great for the two of them i know that

00:32:24.975 --> 00:32:29.375
gwen i think prefers the gi and natalie prefers no gi so it could be fun to

00:32:29.375 --> 00:32:32.115
do a little bit of both yeah see what happens

00:32:32.115 --> 00:32:34.515
Have them do both divisions oh.

00:32:34.515 --> 00:32:36.615
That could be cool i like it

00:32:37.861 --> 00:32:43.641
Do you want to go against Jonesy Jones again after that, like, amazing match to a draw?

00:32:44.941 --> 00:32:48.601
Yeah, I think that would be a lot of fun. She also, like, I'm really glad that

00:32:48.601 --> 00:32:51.341
she finally got her purple belt because, frankly, like, we trained in addition

00:32:51.341 --> 00:32:55.301
to having competed against each other a few times before. We also do train together regularly.

00:32:55.521 --> 00:32:59.561
And, frankly, she felt like a purple belt to me long before she actually got

00:32:59.561 --> 00:33:03.281
her purple belt. She's incredibly physically talented. She has a wrestling background.

00:33:03.841 --> 00:33:07.101
She learns jiu-jitsu really, really quickly. Every time I've either trained

00:33:07.101 --> 00:33:10.081
with her or competed against her, she's been tougher and tougher to deal with.

00:33:10.181 --> 00:33:12.701
And I mean that in the best possible way. She's a great challenge.

00:33:12.961 --> 00:33:17.961
So, yeah, I would love to compete against her again. I like I like even like

00:33:17.961 --> 00:33:21.361
the matches where we draw, like I feel like it's always exciting for me.

00:33:21.421 --> 00:33:24.281
And I feel like I always get something out of it. I hope that she feels the same way.

00:33:25.401 --> 00:33:29.381
And, yeah, I think we've also both made improvements on our leg lock game since

00:33:29.381 --> 00:33:32.881
that NGA match where we were kind of just like stuck in 50-50.

00:33:32.881 --> 00:33:40.661
Like just constantly scrambling for entanglements but not quite able to get the bite on either end.

00:33:40.801 --> 00:33:44.401
But I think that we would be a little bit more technical in the shootout now

00:33:44.401 --> 00:33:46.841
that we both had a chance to kind of refine our games.

00:33:47.821 --> 00:33:50.841
But yeah, no, no, I would absolutely love to compete against Jones again.

00:33:50.921 --> 00:33:51.961
I think she's fantastic.

00:33:52.821 --> 00:33:56.301
All right. Are you guys ready to step into current events?

00:33:56.661 --> 00:33:58.321
Oh, might as well.

00:33:59.061 --> 00:34:04.681
It doesn't have to be specific to what we can use. what has been going on as

00:34:04.681 --> 00:34:08.721
examples, but we don't have to specifically harp on whatever.

00:34:10.041 --> 00:34:14.021
But, what do you guys think of the...

00:34:15.562 --> 00:34:18.802
Prevalence, I guess. Is that a good word for it, Scott?

00:34:19.182 --> 00:34:24.802
Well, it depends on what you're going to say. Of the sexual misconduct within

00:34:24.802 --> 00:34:30.902
jiu-jitsu. And does that make you more skeptical of going to train places?

00:34:32.282 --> 00:34:36.702
I don't need you guys to talk about anything sensitive to yourselves. That's not important.

00:34:37.582 --> 00:34:41.462
Just mainly broad spectrum about jiu-jitsu as a whole, if you are comfortable

00:34:41.462 --> 00:34:45.182
with it. Otherwise, we can cut it. It doesn't matter to me. But...

00:34:45.562 --> 00:34:50.582
I would say that when I'm traveling, I do enjoy going to new gyms,

00:34:50.582 --> 00:34:58.022
but I'm a lot more reliant on recommendations from friends now than I think

00:34:58.022 --> 00:34:59.202
I would have been in the past.

00:34:59.582 --> 00:35:04.182
Like, I would like to know that when I show up somewhere, that there's someone

00:35:04.182 --> 00:35:07.262
I know personally who can vouch for them and tell me it's a safe place.

00:35:07.462 --> 00:35:11.322
There's going to be people there who they trust, who I should be able to trust.

00:35:11.882 --> 00:35:16.002
Yeah, no, I would agree with that. Like, I mean, I do my due diligence anyway,

00:35:16.242 --> 00:35:19.122
like before going to like a new fitness facility of any kind,

00:35:19.182 --> 00:35:20.482
just to make sure that the place is legit.

00:35:20.722 --> 00:35:23.042
But I think especially in jujitsu, it's a full contact sport.

00:35:23.822 --> 00:35:28.562
You know, it is a combat sport. So like in particular, like if I have a personal

00:35:28.562 --> 00:35:32.182
connection to a spot that I'm visiting, if there's something that like my coach,

00:35:32.322 --> 00:35:35.982
teammate, training partner can vouch for, I do just feel a lot more comfortable with that.

00:35:36.142 --> 00:35:38.662
So I would agree with Kate wholeheartedly on that front.

00:35:39.967 --> 00:35:45.507
Um, let me leave you a gap so that I can have a case of wasting time to continue.

00:35:46.087 --> 00:35:51.007
Um, on the, so right now, right.

00:35:51.167 --> 00:35:54.147
The, I mean, it's a little at this point, a little bit old in the,

00:35:54.247 --> 00:35:58.147
in terms of new cycle, but right there, there's a lot of the, um,

00:35:59.207 --> 00:36:02.987
grooming allegations and things like that out of Atos as well as,

00:36:03.107 --> 00:36:08.247
I mean, a few other places, but that's the most prominent example as of right now.

00:36:08.247 --> 00:36:16.847
Um, how do you think organizations should be handling these allegations and

00:36:16.847 --> 00:36:20.307
how do you think organizations can,

00:36:20.527 --> 00:36:23.307
I mean, honestly do better about, uh,

00:36:24.207 --> 00:36:30.267
like controlling or I don't know, vetting the people that they're putting in

00:36:30.267 --> 00:36:34.647
places of power to help make these places, safer places to train?

00:36:35.387 --> 00:36:43.087
I'd say having leaders looking at each other would probably be a good place to start.

00:36:44.927 --> 00:36:50.847
There's going to be a power dynamic between the coaches, the owners, and the students.

00:36:51.087 --> 00:36:55.647
But if you have leaders seeing what the others are doing,

00:36:56.307 --> 00:36:59.467
keeping eyes on their coaches, coaches keeping eyes on each other and making

00:36:59.467 --> 00:37:04.887
sure that everything is staying, in check and safe, they're the ones who are

00:37:04.887 --> 00:37:08.847
going to have the most weight to their words if they speak out.

00:37:09.047 --> 00:37:13.207
And at the same time, they should be open and approachable for any students

00:37:13.207 --> 00:37:15.407
come up to them and be able to voice their concerns.

00:37:15.627 --> 00:37:19.767
And they should be creating an environment where the students feel comfortable

00:37:19.767 --> 00:37:23.067
and safe doing that, that they're not going to get retaliated against,

00:37:23.167 --> 00:37:26.967
that they're not going to get forced out for speaking about their experience.

00:37:26.967 --> 00:37:31.047
But then being in that position of power, they are the ones who should then

00:37:31.047 --> 00:37:34.307
be bringing that to the other people at the top level.

00:37:35.242 --> 00:37:38.362
Yeah, no, I think like that top down dynamic is is huge.

00:37:38.462 --> 00:37:40.962
And we kind of talked about that earlier in another context as well,

00:37:41.062 --> 00:37:45.162
where you learn you do just know a lot about the culture of a room based on

00:37:45.162 --> 00:37:46.222
what the leadership is like.

00:37:46.362 --> 00:37:50.062
And like the example is set by the guy or girl at the head of the room.

00:37:50.182 --> 00:37:55.742
Right. So like if your black belt professor, gym owner is trying to sleep with

00:37:55.742 --> 00:37:59.142
every woman who walks through the door, that kind of tells the rest of the staff

00:37:59.142 --> 00:38:02.922
that that's OK behavior to engage in. Right. That's the example that's being set.

00:38:03.762 --> 00:38:06.742
I do think that like, yes, jujitsu is recreational.

00:38:07.582 --> 00:38:11.722
Most people going into a commercial gym aren't like doing it for a living.

00:38:11.842 --> 00:38:16.382
But in some ways, it would benefit from being treated a little bit like a workplace

00:38:16.382 --> 00:38:19.362
where it's like, yes, workplace romances are fine.

00:38:19.482 --> 00:38:22.862
They happen, but they are handled professionally and they are handled with an

00:38:22.862 --> 00:38:25.542
eye toward the potential consequences of a fallout.

00:38:25.682 --> 00:38:30.142
Right. So, like, for example, if you are a black belt instructor and you want

00:38:30.142 --> 00:38:34.082
to date one of your students, like, it's kind of like a manager deciding to

00:38:34.082 --> 00:38:39.162
date one of their employees or somebody who has been assigned to their team.

00:38:39.162 --> 00:38:42.702
Like there there's a world where you can make it work and where you can navigate

00:38:42.702 --> 00:38:49.082
that power dynamic but because jujitsu despite being a hobby for most people it is so hierarchical.

00:38:50.182 --> 00:38:53.922
And because there is that added dynamic

00:38:53.922 --> 00:38:57.022
of like like high amounts of physical contact it's

00:38:57.022 --> 00:39:00.782
just something that i think should be handled carefully and with

00:39:00.782 --> 00:39:04.542
like very open communication to everyone involved and again

00:39:04.542 --> 00:39:07.482
just just kind of treat it like the same way you would treat like

00:39:07.482 --> 00:39:10.302
an office romance essentially where everyone's above

00:39:10.302 --> 00:39:13.642
board people know what's going on you're not trying to hide anything from anyone and

00:39:13.642 --> 00:39:16.742
i think like that's not that's never going to like negate all

00:39:16.742 --> 00:39:21.522
potential for drama because we're human beings and drama is inevitable in every

00:39:21.522 --> 00:39:26.922
sphere of life not just jujitsu um but it will at the very least i think kind

00:39:26.922 --> 00:39:34.022
of cut back on some of the more explosive scandals that that come out of these situations can i.

00:39:34.022 --> 00:39:38.102
Ask you guys a question yes um you alluded to

00:39:39.320 --> 00:39:48.120
at a point which I fully agree with insofar as the thread of sharing honest feedback.

00:39:48.760 --> 00:39:52.240
We'll say up the chain because I think that's kind of at the core of my question.

00:39:52.500 --> 00:39:58.220
But I want to know in general, you can be general or specific to this, but if there's,

00:39:59.180 --> 00:40:03.640
how would you rate like the challenge or the difficulty that someone might,

00:40:03.780 --> 00:40:05.880
it could be from your experience if you've heard from other people,

00:40:06.100 --> 00:40:09.080
like I'd like to know what the psychology is

00:40:09.080 --> 00:40:12.340
the difficulty it is to actually do that because i think just

00:40:12.340 --> 00:40:15.120
to give a little context you know

00:40:15.120 --> 00:40:18.100
i've had people that relatively recently who have given me

00:40:18.100 --> 00:40:21.340
very honest feedback which i i've

00:40:21.340 --> 00:40:25.980
always wanted honest feedback i personally i this stuff is so important to know

00:40:25.980 --> 00:40:32.020
whether it's this this subject matter or other subject matters if you're leading

00:40:32.020 --> 00:40:36.880
a culture leading a community you have to know you have to know as much as possible

00:40:36.880 --> 00:40:39.140
about like the quality the integrity of the group,

00:40:39.780 --> 00:40:45.360
what kind of environment under your nose is kind of developing.

00:40:45.560 --> 00:40:48.000
So I think that stuff is critically important.

00:40:48.520 --> 00:40:52.660
And like I said, in my life, having some changes, I've had some people give

00:40:52.660 --> 00:40:55.100
me some very open feedback that I was like, well, this is really nice to know.

00:40:55.440 --> 00:40:56.780
Why didn't you tell me six months ago?

00:40:58.700 --> 00:41:03.800
And to me, I asked myself, like, crap, man, why wasn't this person comfortable telling me that?

00:41:03.880 --> 00:41:07.420
And I think there's certain embedded, maybe challenges that people have with saying,

00:41:09.300 --> 00:41:13.300
I've had some people say I didn't want to be the cause of a problem like well it's not a problem

00:41:14.900 --> 00:41:19.060
it could be a big problem or it could be not that much of a problem if we have

00:41:19.060 --> 00:41:21.700
a conversation we kind of get to the bottom of what's going on but does that

00:41:21.700 --> 00:41:25.620
make sense I would love to know your thoughts like honest thoughts on that kind

00:41:25.620 --> 00:41:28.960
of broaching a subject that you're not sure about with someone in a leadership position

00:41:29.805 --> 00:41:33.545
Yeah. So Andrew has actually been one of my coaches for a hot second now.

00:41:34.005 --> 00:41:37.505
And one of the first people that I will go to, to field a,

00:41:37.705 --> 00:41:41.965
is this something I actually need to be concerned about something I actually

00:41:41.965 --> 00:41:47.525
need to say more about having a friend and coach who's been around a little

00:41:47.525 --> 00:41:49.705
bit longer and talking to them of,

00:41:49.965 --> 00:41:52.825
is this something that actually needs to be addressed?

00:41:53.085 --> 00:41:56.845
And if so, can you help me get it in the ears of the right people,

00:41:57.005 --> 00:41:59.985
as opposed to, I just need to vent about this because it's bothering me,

00:42:00.205 --> 00:42:01.605
but it's something that I'm

00:42:01.605 --> 00:42:03.425
Going to deal with myself. Can I ask a follow-up on that, Kate?

00:42:03.565 --> 00:42:07.825
Yeah. Good. Very, very interesting response too, because I'm curious,

00:42:07.925 --> 00:42:10.105
like, I mean, how much of that is you're like, you're still kind of like figuring

00:42:10.105 --> 00:42:12.705
out the culture too. Like what, like, is that right to say?

00:42:12.805 --> 00:42:14.625
Like you're sort of like, is this a thing or is this not a thing?

00:42:14.865 --> 00:42:16.325
Yeah. Is that right? Yeah. Okay.

00:42:16.745 --> 00:42:19.705
It goes back a little bit to what we were saying earlier about picking your

00:42:19.705 --> 00:42:20.605
right training partners.

00:42:21.925 --> 00:42:26.045
Especially when it comes to the injury front. We've all been injured.

00:42:27.065 --> 00:42:31.605
But if I'm drilling in class and somebody's going super light,

00:42:31.825 --> 00:42:35.985
easy, telling me they're injured, and then we hop into the live role and they're

00:42:35.985 --> 00:42:40.865
going 100%, I've gone up to Andrew after class and go, did you see that? Am I crazy?

00:42:42.225 --> 00:42:42.565
Right.

00:42:42.845 --> 00:42:47.985
Is this something that, is this a pattern that you see with other people that

00:42:47.985 --> 00:42:49.045
it needs to be addressed with them?

00:42:49.085 --> 00:42:52.965
Or is this something that I need to deal with on my own? Maybe they're just

00:42:52.965 --> 00:42:55.085
not the right training partner for me. Got it. That's fine.

00:42:55.885 --> 00:43:00.105
But then there are other things that I might bring up that definitely should

00:43:00.105 --> 00:43:02.865
be addressed, you know, on a higher level.

00:43:03.085 --> 00:43:08.405
Hey, we're seeing an issue where there's a number of people who don't really know how to flow roll.

00:43:08.505 --> 00:43:11.485
And so people are getting hurt in the first three to five minutes of class.

00:43:11.665 --> 00:43:11.825
Right.

00:43:12.805 --> 00:43:18.025
Hey, I rolled with more than one person this week who absolutely reeked things

00:43:18.025 --> 00:43:22.845
that should to get moved up as opposed to being dealt with slightly further down the line.

00:43:23.873 --> 00:43:28.113
I mean, first of all, I am deeply honored that you feel comfortable talking

00:43:28.113 --> 00:43:29.593
to me candidly about these things.

00:43:29.733 --> 00:43:32.173
I'm really glad that we've cultivated that relationship.

00:43:33.193 --> 00:43:37.993
But I think like a lot of it is kind of like on us, like I'm a brown belt now, I'm a coach.

00:43:38.973 --> 00:43:43.033
But like, I think Scott would agree with me on this, Mike, as well as people

00:43:43.033 --> 00:43:45.673
who have been leaders in their gyms for quite some time.

00:43:46.693 --> 00:43:50.373
It's also kind of on us to like cultivate an environment where like students

00:43:50.373 --> 00:43:52.933
and lower belts feel comfortable coming to us with those problems.

00:43:52.933 --> 00:43:57.473
So I do try to invite it as much as I can, like where I make a point of saying

00:43:57.473 --> 00:44:00.273
after every class, like, hey, if you have questions about anything,

00:44:00.393 --> 00:44:02.933
if you're uncomfortable with anything, please, like, you know,

00:44:03.093 --> 00:44:05.533
I am I am available to you within reason.

00:44:06.613 --> 00:44:10.173
And like, I'll like also even after I roll with people, I'll like check in with

00:44:10.173 --> 00:44:12.153
them sometimes be like, hey, was that OK?

00:44:12.233 --> 00:44:14.533
Like kind of going back to what we were talking about earlier about like the

00:44:14.533 --> 00:44:17.033
intensity where it's like, hey, like, was that OK?

00:44:17.173 --> 00:44:19.833
Do you want me to give you a different look? Do you want me to go harder? you want me

00:44:19.833 --> 00:44:22.593
to go lighter um and like and i

00:44:22.593 --> 00:44:25.353
also try to make it clear that people are allowed to say no to me

00:44:25.353 --> 00:44:28.753
just because i outrank them doesn't mean that like i like

00:44:28.753 --> 00:44:31.593
i dictate how they train right where it's like

00:44:31.593 --> 00:44:34.673
i i've had people like apologize to

00:44:34.673 --> 00:44:37.673
me for like turning down a role and try to like give all these explanations

00:44:37.673 --> 00:44:40.833
be like i'm so sorry i didn't want to offend you but like i have like this that

00:44:40.833 --> 00:44:44.173
and the other thing i told this person i'm like you don't owe me an explanation

00:44:44.173 --> 00:44:48.533
you can just say it's i won't be offended it is okay and i think it is important

00:44:48.533 --> 00:44:51.933
to cultivate that culture of, like,

00:44:52.333 --> 00:44:54.773
you are allowed to say no to people, even if they outrank you,

00:44:54.853 --> 00:44:57.713
even if they're your instructor, you can just respectfully, like,

00:44:57.993 --> 00:45:00.353
turn down a request to roll or spar

00:45:00.353 --> 00:45:03.453
or drill or do anything that you're uncomfortable doing with that person.

00:45:03.613 --> 00:45:04.033
Yeah.

00:45:04.527 --> 00:45:08.067
On creating an environment where your students feel comfortable doing that,

00:45:08.407 --> 00:45:12.467
I think one of the biggest barriers to giving your feedback to coaches is having

00:45:12.467 --> 00:45:16.327
the time and space to talk to them one-on-one.

00:45:16.627 --> 00:45:21.487
Because there is the time after a class where they might invite you to stay,

00:45:21.707 --> 00:45:24.067
chat, look at a drill, something like that.

00:45:24.227 --> 00:45:27.687
But there's frequently a lot of other people around. And if you are wanting

00:45:27.687 --> 00:45:32.047
to address an issue a little bit more privately, it's a little hard to find

00:45:32.047 --> 00:45:35.007
that space sometimes. Sometimes you might be able to go up to them and say,

00:45:35.127 --> 00:45:37.927
hey, can we, you know, chat privately?

00:45:39.127 --> 00:45:43.587
Can we grab a minute outside? Can we, you know, for a longer period of time later this week?

00:45:43.887 --> 00:45:48.267
But being able to actually find that time at the level of importance that you

00:45:48.267 --> 00:45:50.807
feel it is, is one of the bigger barriers.

00:45:51.933 --> 00:45:55.153
Uh i don't deal with a lot of women in

00:45:55.153 --> 00:45:58.433
my classes but so this is more of a broad spectrum

00:45:58.433 --> 00:46:01.233
general thing but yeah like making the making a

00:46:01.233 --> 00:46:03.833
point to um i try

00:46:03.833 --> 00:46:07.493
to make a point to kind of break down the hierarchy like outside

00:46:07.493 --> 00:46:10.413
of just the general like i'm teaching

00:46:10.413 --> 00:46:13.233
right now please just listen while i teach and after that do whatever

00:46:13.233 --> 00:46:16.453
you know if you want to just respect class

00:46:16.453 --> 00:46:20.273
time but you know outside of that it's like dude i'm just another person

00:46:20.273 --> 00:46:23.213
um i think that's i

00:46:23.213 --> 00:46:26.153
think that's a really important thing because i think that

00:46:26.153 --> 00:46:30.173
the hierarchy and loyalty

00:46:30.173 --> 00:46:33.033
tends to be one of the i

00:46:33.033 --> 00:46:36.333
mean it's a great thing about the sport like the loyalty aspect the

00:46:36.333 --> 00:46:39.193
discipline the shared experience right

00:46:39.193 --> 00:46:42.313
that kind of builds that hierarchy right i think

00:46:42.313 --> 00:46:46.413
the hierarchy is one of the biggest barriers to

00:46:46.413 --> 00:46:53.033
creating like a safe space within the gym right like that that comfortable safe

00:46:53.033 --> 00:46:58.693
space that like if you don't balance the time to use the hierarchy and the time

00:46:58.693 --> 00:47:04.613
not to and it starts to bleed into real life is when that becomes a dangerous

00:47:04.613 --> 00:47:06.253
like thing and i think that

00:47:07.174 --> 00:47:09.794
This is just outside looking in obviously but i

00:47:09.794 --> 00:47:13.214
think that's a big aspect of what's creating

00:47:13.214 --> 00:47:16.674
these like areas where

00:47:16.674 --> 00:47:20.094
these like really terrible things happen

00:47:20.094 --> 00:47:23.434
inside jujitsu gyms um you know

00:47:23.434 --> 00:47:26.734
whether that's physical abuse emotional abuse

00:47:26.734 --> 00:47:29.854
grooming like all that stuff and the reason that it goes like

00:47:29.854 --> 00:47:33.134
on uh uncontrolled or like unchecked

00:47:33.134 --> 00:47:36.394
is because of that like weird loyalty that

00:47:36.394 --> 00:47:39.474
we get to the person that gave

00:47:39.474 --> 00:47:42.314
us a belt right like the person who tied a belt around

00:47:42.314 --> 00:47:46.994
our waist and sometimes that loyalty goes deeper than that but being unwilling

00:47:46.994 --> 00:47:52.594
to challenge those people because of belt rank becomes dangerous and you know

00:47:52.594 --> 00:47:56.234
that's it's uh you know it gets into like when we're talking about the cult

00:47:56.234 --> 00:48:00.954
episode right yeah that also leads to that cult behavior um

00:48:01.414 --> 00:48:07.214
so I think that's good that you guys bring that up I think there's a you both

00:48:07.214 --> 00:48:09.174
mentioned it there's like a

00:48:10.450 --> 00:48:17.050
Theme and a value of the quality of leadership that, to your point, Michael,

00:48:17.330 --> 00:48:21.930
and I'd love to hear everyone's feedback on this if you have something to respond

00:48:21.930 --> 00:48:27.910
to, but I don't see this a lot, but I've seen it plenty of times.

00:48:28.230 --> 00:48:29.450
I still see it sometimes.

00:48:29.830 --> 00:48:34.790
There's a certain a leader or set of leaders kind of sense.

00:48:34.970 --> 00:48:39.910
It ultimately comes from a leader, right? Because this stuff is hierarchical, it can't not be.

00:48:40.530 --> 00:48:44.970
But if there's like a fragility, the word that comes to mind for me is fragility,

00:48:45.090 --> 00:48:51.570
but if the person who's in that leadership position sets a tone of I can't be questioned,

00:48:52.290 --> 00:48:58.810
don't share feedback, to me that conveys fragility to me when I hear that, which is a weakness.

00:48:59.110 --> 00:49:02.870
It's a weakness. Yeah, it's a weakness. It's like that's not a posture that

00:49:02.870 --> 00:49:05.170
an authentic leader should have in general.

00:49:06.830 --> 00:49:10.430
Nonetheless that can repel the impulses

00:49:10.430 --> 00:49:14.050
that a person might have to say i don't know how this person is going to respond and

00:49:14.050 --> 00:49:17.130
therefore i guess i'll keep my mouth shut so i'm scared of what this guy's going

00:49:17.130 --> 00:49:22.990
to do what this lady's going to do um that in my opinion like an authentic legitimate

00:49:22.990 --> 00:49:26.070
sincere person trying to a leader trying to put their best foot forward these

00:49:26.070 --> 00:49:30.210
people are people that have growth even leaders need to continually work on

00:49:30.210 --> 00:49:32.850
that skill because it is a skill and you can't work on it.

00:49:34.390 --> 00:49:39.110
I have to, I mean, I think it's critical to

00:49:41.866 --> 00:49:45.666
Demonstrate that, this is why I took the heart, some of the feedback that I

00:49:45.666 --> 00:49:48.546
was getting is like, crap, man, I wish you guys would have, I unfortunately

00:49:48.546 --> 00:49:50.186
feel like maybe I didn't do my job

00:49:51.606 --> 00:49:55.426
to signal to these people that I can have that conversation.

00:49:55.726 --> 00:49:57.226
So anyways, it's something I think about.

00:49:57.666 --> 00:50:03.926
But I think it's, and that's something I will earnestly continue to work on. Because I like Intel.

00:50:04.646 --> 00:50:07.546
All Intel, you manage it, you filter it.

00:50:07.726 --> 00:50:13.146
All Intel's not created equal, But you have to be open to feedback.

00:50:13.386 --> 00:50:17.986
And it's part, it's like, it's actually the core, it's the root of the job is

00:50:17.986 --> 00:50:22.486
to respond to your marketplace and say, are these people receiving value?

00:50:22.826 --> 00:50:25.306
Do they have critiques? Like, if you're not doing that, you're not doing your job.

00:50:25.706 --> 00:50:28.126
It's as simple as saying. It doesn't mean it's easy. It's simple.

00:50:29.066 --> 00:50:30.846
However, so I don't know. What do you guys think of that?

00:50:32.074 --> 00:50:34.374
A lot. Yeah, you have to be open to feedback.

00:50:34.874 --> 00:50:40.994
That's what it all boils down to is if you're being prescriptive about what

00:50:40.994 --> 00:50:44.954
needs to be done, and exactly how it needs to be done with no flexibility.

00:50:45.594 --> 00:50:48.554
There's not a big group of people that that's likely going to work for.

00:50:49.054 --> 00:50:52.434
Everyone's going to learn differently. Everyone has different goals.

00:50:52.834 --> 00:50:56.994
Everyone has different reasons that they do this. And you need to be open to all of them.

00:50:57.694 --> 00:51:00.574
Yeah. And I feel like it's also important to highlight that it isn't

00:51:00.574 --> 00:51:03.294
enough to just like say the words right be like

00:51:03.294 --> 00:51:06.714
hey of course i'm open to feedback because your actions tell a

00:51:06.714 --> 00:51:09.634
deeper story right so if you sit like plenty of gym owners

00:51:09.634 --> 00:51:12.334
or coaches will be like oh of course i'm open to

00:51:12.334 --> 00:51:15.714
my students feedback but then if they receive any negative criticism at all

00:51:15.714 --> 00:51:19.414
suddenly there's all this passive aggressive behavior they're icing out students

00:51:19.414 --> 00:51:24.214
they're retaliating they're being like really weird about it so like you you

00:51:24.214 --> 00:51:28.774
can't accept that either right if you say that you are open to feedback that

00:51:28.774 --> 00:51:30.614
means all feedback, positive or negative.

00:51:30.834 --> 00:51:34.714
And if you receive negative feedback, like, yeah, that might sting a little,

00:51:34.874 --> 00:51:37.214
but you kind of have to swallow that and put on your big boy.

00:51:37.214 --> 00:51:38.574
Pants and like,

00:51:38.914 --> 00:51:43.674
And kind of ask yourself, look inward and be like, okay, why am I receiving

00:51:43.674 --> 00:51:46.794
this feedback? Is there something real here that can be addressed?

00:51:46.994 --> 00:51:49.634
And most importantly, even if you don't agree with that feedback,

00:51:49.814 --> 00:51:53.794
don't take it out on the student, you know, like, don't let your ego kind of

00:51:53.794 --> 00:51:57.254
like poison the well and create this toxicity, because that says more about

00:51:57.254 --> 00:52:00.014
you than it does about the student that criticized you, in my opinion.

00:52:01.422 --> 00:52:08.242
As the person receiving the feedback, right, you kind of get one chance to receive

00:52:08.242 --> 00:52:11.562
for people to be willing to talk to you.

00:52:12.222 --> 00:52:19.982
Because yeah, once you lash back out, once it becomes not a conversation and you just start,

00:52:20.142 --> 00:52:23.282
you put up your defensive barriers, you lash out at that person when they give

00:52:23.282 --> 00:52:25.802
you feedback, it doesn't make anybody,

00:52:25.962 --> 00:52:28.642
because they're going to tell everyone else, like yeah like i went to talk to him

00:52:28.642 --> 00:52:31.602
about this and he just snapped at

00:52:31.602 --> 00:52:34.722
me right so like you kind of you have some you

00:52:34.722 --> 00:52:37.622
guess sometimes you just have to be willing to listen in the moment you don't have

00:52:37.622 --> 00:52:40.522
to give them a rebuttal or an explanation right they give

00:52:40.522 --> 00:52:43.562
you the feedback you just accept it you think about

00:52:43.562 --> 00:52:46.902
it and then you can come back with an answer later if you don't have like the

00:52:46.902 --> 00:52:50.502
ability to give a measured response

00:52:50.502 --> 00:52:53.442
right uh so yeah

00:52:53.442 --> 00:52:56.262
i think that's it's a really good point my last thing

00:52:56.262 --> 00:52:59.822
too is that this is my attitude towards like anonymous or

00:52:59.822 --> 00:53:02.522
not anonymous information but i most people aren't going

00:53:02.522 --> 00:53:05.142
to say something and so for me i have this like

00:53:05.142 --> 00:53:08.222
iceberg analogy where it's like if two one or two people tell me something or

00:53:08.222 --> 00:53:13.382
three or four i'm number one that's a pattern but um someone tells you something

00:53:13.382 --> 00:53:16.482
i'm of the opinion like tip of the iceberg that's when it's poking above the

00:53:16.482 --> 00:53:18.942
water there's 10x the amount of people who are thinking the same thing who haven't

00:53:18.942 --> 00:53:22.642
said anything so that's where my mind goes i try to like trying like something

00:53:22.642 --> 00:53:24.382
i hear If I hear something, I'm like, you know what?

00:53:24.402 --> 00:53:27.262
I can kind of see that. That to me, definitely iceberg thing going on here.

00:53:27.582 --> 00:53:30.482
If I hear something, I'm like, I don't know. I mean, okay, I'm listening, but like,

00:53:31.427 --> 00:53:34.847
To triangulate things I can't put my finger on. So I usually go to trusted sources

00:53:34.847 --> 00:53:38.167
at different degrees and sort of seek out like validation.

00:53:38.307 --> 00:53:41.207
Like, what do you think? Is this valid or is this one person's kind of got a

00:53:41.207 --> 00:53:43.747
perspective that's specific to them?

00:53:45.087 --> 00:53:47.887
This stuff is important, man. Very important.

00:53:48.427 --> 00:53:54.047
And I'll bring it back around to being part of the actual gym community is there

00:53:54.047 --> 00:53:58.607
are a lot of people still who are not comfortable with approaching the coaches,

00:53:58.607 --> 00:54:00.947
but there are some of us who are like,

00:54:01.087 --> 00:54:04.807
have made a good bond with our coaches and are willing to go talk to them.

00:54:05.007 --> 00:54:11.427
So as teammates, as members of the gym, we should also be talking to our teammates

00:54:11.427 --> 00:54:15.967
and finding out if there's anything that they want to say, but aren't comfortable

00:54:15.967 --> 00:54:19.187
saying I've had people come to me and I'll pass that information right along.

00:54:20.247 --> 00:54:25.147
But you know, might not be something I am in full alignment with,

00:54:25.267 --> 00:54:28.667
but I'm more comfortable talking to the coaches. So I will absolutely pass that

00:54:28.667 --> 00:54:30.547
on because it's important that they get that feedback.

00:54:31.267 --> 00:54:34.787
Yeah, that's huge. I think like, again, there's like this trickle down effect

00:54:34.787 --> 00:54:37.347
where it's like, it's not just about the people, the tippity top,

00:54:37.467 --> 00:54:40.847
they set the example, but like it's, I think it's also important to like kind

00:54:40.847 --> 00:54:45.147
of cultivate the people who are sort of in the middle, like your blues, your purple belts,

00:54:46.007 --> 00:54:50.427
folks who have been around for a while and kind of know the mat culture and

00:54:50.427 --> 00:54:53.427
like maybe they aren't coaches, maybe they aren't gym owners,

00:54:53.607 --> 00:54:57.267
but they can take kind of like a leadership role in their own right within the community,

00:54:58.167 --> 00:55:03.287
And often those folks are a little bit more approachable than the head honcho on the mat. Right.

00:55:03.727 --> 00:55:07.627
And like this is maybe an extreme example. But I remember I think when I was

00:55:07.627 --> 00:55:10.387
fairly new to DMA, I came in as a blue belt.

00:55:11.147 --> 00:55:14.487
This was either when I was late in blue belt or early in purple belt.

00:55:14.867 --> 00:55:17.827
I had a female teammate come up to me and she was like, hey,

00:55:18.007 --> 00:55:22.307
I had this weird role with the guy who like he kind of like freaked out on me.

00:55:22.487 --> 00:55:25.187
He hit me in the face. I can't tell if it was on purpose or not.

00:55:25.267 --> 00:55:30.427
But like it made me really uncomfortable. I stopped the role like do I say anything

00:55:30.427 --> 00:55:34.747
about this because this was like a new white belt too and I was like.

00:55:35.793 --> 00:55:36.913
Who was it? She told me.

00:55:37.273 --> 00:55:42.693
I knew that the guy had a history of being kind of a weirdo in roles,

00:55:42.693 --> 00:55:45.853
had gotten unnecessarily aggressive with several other members.

00:55:46.193 --> 00:55:49.753
And so I was like, OK, well, I'm going to for safety reasons,

00:55:49.813 --> 00:55:52.053
I am going to have to send this up the ladder.

00:55:52.213 --> 00:55:53.913
Right. Like I am going to have to report this because, like,

00:55:53.993 --> 00:55:57.773
you know, you you did the right thing. You stopped the role. You're safe.

00:55:57.913 --> 00:56:01.193
But I can't guarantee that this guy isn't going to do this to somebody else.

00:56:01.313 --> 00:56:03.553
And now, like, it isn't just one anecdote.

00:56:03.733 --> 00:56:07.233
This is a pattern of behavior that's been observed. Right. So I go and I talk

00:56:07.233 --> 00:56:10.313
to some of the black belts at DMM. I'm like, hey, this is what happened.

00:56:10.453 --> 00:56:11.673
This is what this person told me.

00:56:11.873 --> 00:56:16.353
And so like it kind of it was as a result, like this person did ultimately end

00:56:16.353 --> 00:56:20.353
up getting kicked out because it is not OK to regularly, violently assault your

00:56:20.353 --> 00:56:22.613
training partners without their consent.

00:56:23.453 --> 00:56:26.713
But it was one of those things, right, where it's like if you're if you're new

00:56:26.713 --> 00:56:31.593
and like, you know, you haven't really been exposed to full contact combat sports

00:56:31.593 --> 00:56:34.613
before, you might not necessarily know what is and isn't normalized.

00:56:34.613 --> 00:56:40.233
And you might be like a little bit shy about going directly to your coach or

00:56:40.233 --> 00:56:41.893
directly to the gym owner to ask.

00:56:42.073 --> 00:56:45.193
And it can be helpful to have somebody who's kind of like a big sister,

00:56:45.313 --> 00:56:48.753
big brother on the mat, who's like your local friendly blue belt,

00:56:48.833 --> 00:56:51.653
purple belt, and just be like, hey, this happened. It was kind of weird.

00:56:51.813 --> 00:56:54.733
Should I like talk to the coach about that? Or am I being a drama queen?

00:56:54.733 --> 00:56:57.953
And they can either be like, yeah, like, you know, it's like,

00:56:58.213 --> 00:57:01.113
you know, somebody getting a little spazzy is a little normal, like it's whatever.

00:57:01.433 --> 00:57:04.893
Or they can be like, no, nobody should be backhanding you in the middle of a roll.

00:57:05.033 --> 00:57:08.573
That's not okay. We're not playing combat jiu-jitsu here. So I think like having

00:57:08.573 --> 00:57:11.613
those go-betweens can be a really helpful resource.

00:57:13.224 --> 00:57:16.844
Any other closing remarks? I'll say one thing to that. I'm not a lady,

00:57:16.984 --> 00:57:18.044
but I'll say one thing to that.

00:57:18.764 --> 00:57:21.804
I've been saying this for years, but I believe it's true. If you're doing a

00:57:21.804 --> 00:57:26.764
good job at setting a culture in the community, in the communities, that's the business.

00:57:27.124 --> 00:57:29.864
That's the core of the job is community when you're in a leadership position.

00:57:30.204 --> 00:57:33.604
If you do it right, I like this analogy of calling the community an immune system

00:57:34.064 --> 00:57:37.124
where good people, good eyes on the mat,

00:57:37.964 --> 00:57:42.364
at every level, low, medium, high, you'll catch things like that.

00:57:42.364 --> 00:57:45.264
And if the immune system's healthy, that stuff gets handled.

00:57:45.944 --> 00:57:49.184
You know, like white blood cells around an infection, take care of it,

00:57:49.264 --> 00:57:52.984
gets removed, and then you just preserve the integrity of the community,

00:57:53.084 --> 00:57:54.264
the immune system for the long term.

00:57:54.444 --> 00:57:57.584
But it has to, it's work. It just has to be done.

00:57:57.924 --> 00:58:00.944
Well, yeah, everyone has to look out for each other, right? Like,

00:58:01.084 --> 00:58:06.164
if you're not looking out for each other on the mats, it makes a huge difference

00:58:06.164 --> 00:58:08.644
in terms of safety on the mats.

00:58:08.824 --> 00:58:11.484
You allow an infection to metastasize and then you get cancer.

00:58:11.484 --> 00:58:17.124
Yeah and hopefully the cancer removes itself or it gets cut out I call it the

00:58:17.124 --> 00:58:21.864
job system you just gotta take out the trash yeah take out the trash

00:58:22.929 --> 00:58:25.769
Yeah, dude, it's part of the job. Just taking out the trash.

00:58:26.389 --> 00:58:29.769
Got to exercise the demons, remove the toxins. Exercise the demons.

00:58:29.909 --> 00:58:32.909
Cut out the cancer. Yeah. Yeah.

00:58:34.549 --> 00:58:39.229
Any closing remarks about being a woman in jujitsu or... Yeah?

00:58:39.989 --> 00:58:42.349
Talk to each other and wash your damn gi.

00:58:43.529 --> 00:58:45.969
Yeah, I don't think I can say it better than Kate. Yeah, definitely.

00:58:46.209 --> 00:58:47.749
Just like, yeah, look out for each other.

00:58:48.029 --> 00:58:51.369
Like, you know, having wonderful male teammates is one thing.

00:58:51.369 --> 00:58:53.909
But as girls, we also got to look out for each other, train with each other,

00:58:54.049 --> 00:58:57.549
push each other, be good teammates, be good training partners, build up the community.

00:58:57.769 --> 00:59:00.409
And yes, please wash your gear. I beg of you.

00:59:00.989 --> 00:59:04.469
I beg of you. This has been Fighters Drinking Coffee, guys.

00:59:04.689 --> 00:59:10.589
Thank you to Kate and Andrea for being on yet another episode.

00:59:10.729 --> 00:59:11.629
There are going to be a few here.

00:59:13.049 --> 00:59:17.089
We have a long drive. This has been more road rants.

00:59:18.649 --> 00:59:21.329
You can go check out the Patreon, guys. that's a big one for

00:59:21.329 --> 00:59:24.489
supporting the show patreon.com slash fighters drinking

00:59:24.489 --> 00:59:28.109
coffee podcast um as well

00:59:28.109 --> 00:59:31.769
you can go check out our boy asim at nova barbell

00:59:31.769 --> 00:59:34.509
club we've got a little promo for you

00:59:34.509 --> 00:59:37.469
guys um we've got i

00:59:37.469 --> 00:59:40.389
love coffee is the code that you can use

00:59:40.389 --> 00:59:43.329
it'll get you 50 off your first month of

00:59:43.329 --> 00:59:46.989
training with him um so we've ranted

00:59:46.989 --> 00:59:50.209
about it it's he's who we use for all of our uh

00:59:50.209 --> 00:59:53.169
strength conditioning needs uh he's also

00:59:53.169 --> 00:59:58.989
really great when it comes to the uh support around the events he's really good

00:59:58.989 --> 01:00:01.869
at answering questions and stuff like that as well definitely get on the team

01:00:01.869 --> 01:00:08.389
all four of us here in the car are in vbc athletes so check them out uh rate

01:00:08.389 --> 01:00:11.269
review tell a friend to listen to the show as well, guys.

01:00:11.989 --> 01:00:14.689
Keep growing the community, just like we talked about on the show.

01:00:14.829 --> 01:00:17.569
It's all about community aspect here.

01:00:17.789 --> 01:00:20.509
So thanks, guys. Love you. Bye.