(Ep 19) From Mat to Mindset: The True Game of Jiu-Jitsu

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Welcome to Fighters Drinking Coffee. Today, we are going to be talking about games and rule sets.

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This is an episode from the archives, actually, and I hope you guys enjoy it.

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Yeah rock and roll um yeah so

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like i'm a big i'm a

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competitive person it's a big part of who i am um

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so for me competing is uh it's a natural progression for me like a thing it's

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what i like to do is like what kind of my it's oh well it's what i got me into

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jiu-jitsu you wrestled you fought mma you've done a bunch of jiu-jitsu tournaments

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right yeah so like you know that's and I,

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that was always my goal getting into jujitsu.

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So like, for me, that's the pathway, right? Like I didn't do this just to like learn jujitsu.

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I did it with the mindset of competing. It was kind of a thing to backfill when

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I, after getting injured in wrestling.

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So like, that was kind of a, that's what brought me there. I was like,

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Oh, I'm going to do this thing, do MMA compete now.

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So, um, you know, that, that was my thought process,

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which I know is not the same for everyone some people get into it

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for different reasons um but i think

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that that is a big for me it's a big part

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of jiu-jitsu and kind

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of progressing getting better yeah dude uh

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it's funny when i started doing this i compete a ton now and

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i have for like about about 10 years pretty

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high level um when i first

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started ironically or to

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draw a contrast i started off just

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wanting to learn and then as i

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did it i guess the question emerged like

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am i any good at this i was doing pretty good on the mat

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sparring in class and um you

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know i came in pretty pretty little it was like like 130 pounds or whatever

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this is forever 20 years ago yeah way back in the days of skinny scott yeah

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dude exactly but um at first it was you know i gained some weight i was like

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all right i gotta get my act together if i'm gonna be doing this sort of thing but um.

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Yeah that was kind of at first i was sort of like all right let me just pick

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up this as a skill and see uh how it goes and then i got from there to a point

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where i was like i think i'm pretty good at this. Let's actually go find out.

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Yeah, I think when... Because I think even when we initially started training

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together, I don't think you were...

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Competing at the time either or yes that's right

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yeah that was like right when i decided i was like

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i got i really want to start yeah like i think i want to

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take that seriously that's kind of what i mean that's probably what really

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tied us together yeah we started training as we both

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started training a ton and like competing a bunch you were doing like

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5 30 in the morning lift oh dude i was training

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do you remember that i was doing three a days i would

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like train i would either i would do morning workouts

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and then probably do skill work with um with

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sam with uh and then with

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perdomo um and then we would

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go eat shower up come back

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and train again at noon because that was

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usually my training session around like lunchtime and

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then in the evening come back and do class

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and so we'd have like the duck because we did the double

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classes back then it was like the back-to-back so come

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in like do like i think one day was even like do no gi then do gi and so you

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train like just training all day training all day yeah so i had to take that

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somewhere you got to go compete after that but um after a while it gets to like

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it gets to where i'm doing this so much why am i doing this let's go play a

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game let's see am i even good at this Yeah, exactly. Training an awful lot.

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You can sit there and beat up the people in your own gym, but you aren't necessarily...

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That's not a real... Because you can learn what they do. You train with them all the time.

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That's why everyone gets caught in the gym. That's also why those training partners

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make better is because you can go in there, train with the same people, and end up just like...

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Just figuring out, well, this guy likes to, this is the guard game that,

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you know, training partner A plays.

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I know what he does. I know. And so I'll just figure out how to beat that,

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but that doesn't mean you're good at it, right? You just know how to beat that

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person's specific quirks.

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And so if you really want to see if you're good at that, that skills,

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that skill, or like those techniques, you go and apply it to someone who's game you don't know.

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Um, and so that was kind of, that's the

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path that's kind of how i was able to figure all right like yeah

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it might be am i just figuring out what my partners do

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or am i going out there and able to apply

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my will in my game against anyone and

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sometimes you find out yes and then you'll go against another guy and they

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like completely disprove it and then you're like shit i need to

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go learn this again um but you

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know you also get those takeaways of learning from those um those matches as

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well for sure and if i can jump on that too dude basically what and i agree

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with with your your premise i think the i guess to articulate that there's like

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a there's two ways to look at it at least or two different versions.

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Of two scenarios that you you look at

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and within that premise one is sort of like how do i do with the

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known known unknowns or whatever

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if you want to think of it like that i know these guys i'm

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pretty good at dealing with people i know how do i deal with unknown

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scenarios in a game where as

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you said i don't know what this person's going to do maybe some of them you

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study your opponents we can talk about that in a little bit too you should but

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whatever um there's value to that in terms of it's not always available it's

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not always available it isn't always available so you're going to go out and

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you're going to be like all right there's a whole group of opponents maybe a

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couple of them have some matches on flow or youtube are let's study these guys,

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at least your first or second round if you know that's the path they're going

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to take and you should do that too, right?

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But then there's the inevitability of, all right, I'm going to face some scenarios

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that I probably have some general awareness of, especially if you've been training

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for a long time. Like you're not completely raw.

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However, I got to go out and as you said, apply that imposing your will and make it your game.

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And that's what we're talking about today.

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We're talking about the game of all of this and why it's valuable for folks.

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The value of playing a game of jiu-jitsu. Yeah. Yeah.

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Oh, yeah, for sure. And, like, you know, I think there's also you have a little

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bit of that comfort zone because in the gym you're also comfortable.

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There's that, like, knowing when I tap or this guy's going to let go or this

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guy's not going to rip something, so I know I have a little bit of time to work my way out. Yeah.

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You don't know that going into a tournament, right?

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Like there's a lot of times where you, there's those opportunities and sometimes

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you, like I've done it, you tap early because something comes on so quick and

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you weren't thinking it was going to happen that fast, even if it wasn't all

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the way at that point of break.

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But like you're in a big, you're in a transition and a scramble and then all

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of a sudden your arm's like straight out and you're like, I got work tomorrow.

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I need to, you know. um i can't.

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Have a broken shoulder for my life yeah so there's

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a little bit of that too where like there's you have.

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To know that you're out of your comfort zone and how.

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Do you there's a little bit of preparation for.

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Not being comfortable but you can't really

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prepare for that so you have to get comfortable being

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uncomfortable as you know

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backwards as that is but like being maybe

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not comfortable being okay with

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being uncomfortable and being okay and

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like some of that comes into stuff we've talked about before in like

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our in positional training like be in

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those bad positions it's a similar concept but

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sometimes that's the environment you're competing in sometimes

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that's having those unknowns it is

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sometimes a bad position sometimes it's

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competing through injuries which is another thing that

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we discussed too like injury and training and like

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so you have to be ready for all these different

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variables you don't have in your general

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training room in the gym with your known partners all

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of that so um i mean this is all stuff you know obviously we'll

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get talking about but yeah well just again my take

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on all that is like it's and this is good for a human being in

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life which is just being comfortable as you said developing

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that comfort in dealing with the unknown yeah so the unknown in quotes like

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going out and facing that and the more you compete the easier that becomes because

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that be that actually becomes a skill that you'll develop too and that's what

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you see like in my opinion with a lot of really good competitors is that they do it so much.

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It may not be necessarily, I mean, there's definitely like, there's like a Venn diagram.

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There's definitely a skill within the martial art that overlaps with the best competitors for sure.

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But a lot of these guys are just really good at competing.

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Like they're comfortable in that scenario. They're comfortable with general

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ideas of how to win games, especially in combat sports, which are,

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you know, pretty similar to other sports too.

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There's certain principles that apply, like always being on offense,

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you know, confining someone to a defensive strategy or

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defensive reactionary position in

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quotes keeping them responding to you managing

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the clock forcing them to have to

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react to what you're doing versus allowing when you take the

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initiative things like that but um some people who

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have that comfort and competition they just do

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that naturally they may not always that's so you see this like good wrestlers

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who come in they've done this so many times if that's one

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of the really good things about like high school or you

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know a wrestling you you name it college wrestling for sure

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too these guys have competed so many times folk style that

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controlling that's high volume those are

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the skills right but i think i just even taking a step back just

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the fact that they've just been in like when you when you play that

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sport when you're a wrestler like you've just competed hundreds of times hundreds

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of times just in a couple just especially even just

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high school wrestlers you get tons of matches yeah so they're

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just comfortable in that environment and like they're not intimidated by the

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by being on the mat people watching them um and yes also the skill set of wrestling

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just applies so directly to jiu-jitsu that well it's in especially jiu-jitsu

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it's a similar it's score based it's a score based competition right it overlaps with a similar like.

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The gotcha you know the pin or the submission like

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it's very similar in terms of the

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general concept of the rules the two things are so

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the two sports are so similar that you can literally go in with no jiu-jitsu

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sometimes and just be a wrestler and like some of these guys just win entire

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tournaments because they're their ability to do that and impose that versus

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a guy who maybe overall knows more jiu-jitsu but doesn't know how to force someone

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to respond to their game they lose well And I think a good,

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like a good, like pathway for that too,

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is like that the rule sets of ADCC, right?

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Like you see a lot more people coming from, you know, you,

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especially in like try, you know, we have the non, you know, people competing up.

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Like you have blue belts that come in, purple belts that come in and they're

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beating black belts because they have the background of the competition enough

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to like know how to play that game.

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And so like having those rules sense you know like the specific takedown

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rules which are different from like ibjgf is

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definitely a little more jujitsu like friendly i

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guess is the better way to put it and like especially the

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way they break everything out and like so you have a little bit

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of you're kind of forcing people to play a

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different game than you are in like adcc right

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you have the you have the different you basically have to take down and have

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a form of pinning to the ground a form.

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Of control that's different than you do in ibjgf or

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you know all these are a bunch of different ones

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right yeah i mean and that and non-point space you've also

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have the non-points based ones and so there's there's different

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those different rule sets also play a part in

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who's going to succeed right so like

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that's right and when adcc was first created that

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was their like their mission statement

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kind of like ufc one was like what's they

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took that same question of what's the best style of grappling yeah so

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they they wrote the rules and then generated the game

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of because it's like a grappling tournament it's not a jiu-jitsu tournament

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as you said the ibgf is the international brazilian jiu-jitsu federation yeah

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yeah you can still come in and wrestle really well and apply that but you can

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also there's it's more befitting for someone to pull guard and use that jiu-jitsu

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skill set a little bit more you can't actually pull guard in the ibgf without

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being penalized there's a different way.

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But that goes back to what you were saying, they work the game to be like alright,

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we're going to give wrestlers sambo fighters,

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you name it, judo, whatever any form of grappling, also jiu-jitsu of course.

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Because they do in a lot of ways in ADCC,

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make it almost like a sub-only tournament, it isn't sub-only because there are

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points, but they're like look, if you're going to do that, there are penalties

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to saying you're going to go to your back and just pull guard therefore,

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you better find a way to score or submit this dude if you're going to make that

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happen because you don't allow it.

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There are no points in the beginning of it. You're going to get a penalty for

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pulling guard unless the other guy initiates a takedown.

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Which does, it contrasts depending on what game you're trying to develop a skill

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set around whatever maybe your background is like if you're coming in as a wrestler

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and the academy that you're at is more oriented towards IBGF tournaments,

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local tournaments that use that skill set or that rule set perhaps,

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which a lot, that's probably the most common rule set.

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Yeah, it's very common it's the most pervasive and so a lot of academies will do that.

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But it kind of goes back to like all right what where are

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we steering this group of athletes and then how are

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we preparing them and then like if you bring a wrestler in and they're they're going

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to be doing a lot of IBJ if you might need to say all right keep that

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wrestling but we're going to start to adjust it more for

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a jiu-jitsu style tournament or if you're

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at an academy that's perhaps doing both or maybe a little more oriented towards.

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ADCC and because ADCC is growing a ton and it's

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exciting and there's money and they're doing a really good

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promotions kind of adapting that rule set

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as well starting to take more pieces from there

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versus it might still start with like

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that general jujitsu ibjjf framework

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but there's a lot of people that are starting to take bits and pieces

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from abcc's rule set and apply them especially in

00:15:06.413 --> 00:15:09.193
the nogi side starting to apply some of those

00:15:09.193 --> 00:15:12.373
to like help increase watchability like

00:15:12.373 --> 00:15:15.293
some of the watchability of it or the broad i

00:15:15.293 --> 00:15:18.213
guess probably better i better wording for it is the

00:15:18.213 --> 00:15:21.073
broad appeal totally it's expanding right there's more

00:15:21.073 --> 00:15:23.853
tournaments now they do regional tournaments they do this they do that like it's

00:15:23.853 --> 00:15:26.833
more therefore potentially there are more places out

00:15:26.833 --> 00:15:29.953
there academy wise they're saying no we're going to go more to these adcc tournaments because

00:15:29.953 --> 00:15:34.393
there's just more and like you said more more other tangential

00:15:34.393 --> 00:15:37.513
organizations excuse me are steering

00:15:37.513 --> 00:15:40.993
towards that rule set too so there might be places where that becomes the way

00:15:40.993 --> 00:15:44.153
they train so then maybe that same wrestler that same dude you're like all right

00:15:44.153 --> 00:15:46.853
we're not going to tweak too too much actually we're going to give you some

00:15:46.853 --> 00:15:49.933
submission defense we're going to keep you attacking offensively and have you

00:15:49.933 --> 00:15:55.353
become more like a catch wrestler yeah as an example yeah i mean that's that's

00:15:55.353 --> 00:15:56.953
uh for sure because we i mean.

00:15:57.943 --> 00:16:01.263
Especially when it was more prevalent, the submission-only tournaments.

00:16:01.643 --> 00:16:04.783
Yeah, they had like a moment. The submission-only tournaments had a moment where

00:16:04.783 --> 00:16:09.283
they're still around and they're still kind of cool, but you like those the most? Oh, I love those.

00:16:09.503 --> 00:16:12.183
But I mean, like, there's a part of it that's like you can...

00:16:12.183 --> 00:16:13.283
You just got to have the time limit, man.

00:16:13.343 --> 00:16:16.163
They become brutal to watch when nothing happens. Well, I mean,

00:16:16.383 --> 00:16:19.843
you know, you have some where a guy just decides to shell up for 20 minutes, right?

00:16:19.963 --> 00:16:25.043
Like, he's getting crushed, but like he knows, like, I'll just hide everything.

00:16:25.043 --> 00:16:29.883
And so you do have to kind of there has to be some amount either a limit or

00:16:29.883 --> 00:16:34.743
gotta be a time limit to some sort of and I know like you want to have that.

00:16:35.443 --> 00:16:40.263
Victory but you gotta have some sort of or you have to have some sort of stalling

00:16:40.263 --> 00:16:43.923
call for the guy who's just hiding everything like you have to figure that out

00:16:43.923 --> 00:16:49.683
good rule set concept for that is PGF where they have the short time but they

00:16:49.683 --> 00:16:54.843
also penalize stalling on bottom and but see Yeah, I mean, you definitely have to have that.

00:16:54.943 --> 00:16:58.423
But I love those because, I mean, I just, you can sit there,

00:16:58.503 --> 00:16:59.623
you can just grind people down.

00:16:59.843 --> 00:17:03.623
Which is cool. Dude, I remember going to those tournaments, the U.S.

00:17:03.843 --> 00:17:07.123
Grappling guys before they stopped doing that. They used to do a bunch, and they were just,

00:17:07.643 --> 00:17:10.803
on the day, if you looked at the stats or something, if they even had these

00:17:10.803 --> 00:17:13.903
stats, probably most of them ended in a pretty timely fashion,

00:17:13.963 --> 00:17:16.543
but there were always those outliers that went like an hour and a half,

00:17:16.703 --> 00:17:18.563
and it's always like two heavyweights, someone's out of shape,

00:17:18.623 --> 00:17:19.803
and like nothing happens.

00:17:19.923 --> 00:17:22.583
And there were matches that would go for like over an hour, and you're like,

00:17:22.743 --> 00:17:24.803
God, please, throw a gun in there or a knife.

00:17:25.163 --> 00:17:30.883
Let's just end it. Someone's got to win. But I like those because they definitely.

00:17:32.103 --> 00:17:34.543
Encourage that if you're...

00:17:35.266 --> 00:17:38.586
It can help you train to be more aggressive and hunt those submissions.

00:17:38.786 --> 00:17:43.226
You can definitely, that game is, it's a fun game to play if you want to go

00:17:43.226 --> 00:17:47.726
out there and, like, hard work, look, you know, hunt for that top position,

00:17:47.866 --> 00:17:51.286
hunt for that submission, or, like, you know, hey, I'm going to dive legs.

00:17:51.406 --> 00:17:55.226
Like, there's definitely, like, a fun, there's a fun aspect to that.

00:17:55.306 --> 00:17:59.106
I get it. But, I mean, you know, the person you go against matters, too.

00:17:59.286 --> 00:18:02.526
Like, if they're not going to play the game, then it gets a little.

00:18:02.526 --> 00:18:05.166
It gets tough, man. I'm telling you, if you get it, like, at a certain point for me,

00:18:05.166 --> 00:18:07.926
personally i'd say probably it's 20 minutes 20 to 30 minutes

00:18:07.926 --> 00:18:10.786
where i'm like all right guys like um maybe it's my attention span

00:18:10.786 --> 00:18:13.466
maybe it's add i'm like yo guys like all right something's gotta

00:18:13.466 --> 00:18:16.346
happen like i'm getting a little bit like sick of this someone someone just put

00:18:16.346 --> 00:18:18.986
an arm out there dude i keep it away you know what i think he does a good

00:18:18.986 --> 00:18:21.606
job with that is is who's number one yeah i don't

00:18:21.606 --> 00:18:24.666
know if you ever watched those but they like it's definitely sub only

00:18:24.666 --> 00:18:27.766
but they have judges favor a certain

00:18:27.766 --> 00:18:30.506
person it's just simplified to a point where like all right someone go

00:18:30.506 --> 00:18:33.546
send it the other guy but if not what we're gonna do is we're gonna weigh the

00:18:33.546 --> 00:18:36.386
body of your work for about and what they'll do like

00:18:36.386 --> 00:18:39.286
they have they they they get it down to like the sweet

00:18:39.286 --> 00:18:42.226
spot and it's usually with like good athletes that you're actually really intrigued

00:18:42.226 --> 00:18:45.126
by the matchups where like gordon ryan versus some other guy you

00:18:45.126 --> 00:18:47.966
name it or whoever just picking it out to where you're like all right i'll

00:18:47.966 --> 00:18:50.646
actually watch this guy grapple for 20 to 30 minutes because it's kind of interesting

00:18:50.646 --> 00:18:55.446
they're so good that um the skill set and the strategy it's fun to observe that

00:18:55.446 --> 00:18:59.566
and see how they approach the match they bring in their skill set to do that

00:18:59.566 --> 00:19:03.606
too and then it's gonna end at a certain point there's gonna be a judge's favorite

00:19:03.606 --> 00:19:05.206
this guy like yeah there was no sub.

00:19:06.477 --> 00:19:09.697
Mike was doing more shit, so Mike, you win. Winner.

00:19:09.957 --> 00:19:13.097
Yeah, you were working harder. You were going for those submissions.

00:19:13.117 --> 00:19:14.657
You were playing the game better.

00:19:14.817 --> 00:19:17.757
That's the sweet spot for me. At a certain point, it gets sore.

00:19:17.837 --> 00:19:19.437
I'm like, all right, I can't do an hour and a half.

00:19:19.997 --> 00:19:24.437
You got to have a cutoff point. But yeah, I mean, that's perfect because then

00:19:24.437 --> 00:19:28.397
you're encouraging that person to actually play the game, both sides of it, right?

00:19:28.537 --> 00:19:30.777
I think they do a cash incentive too for someone. So they're like,

00:19:30.817 --> 00:19:34.717
hey, please submit someone. Yeah, you got to get that sub bonus. That always helps too.

00:19:35.277 --> 00:19:38.297
It does make for an entertaining product and that's if there were my notes on

00:19:38.297 --> 00:19:42.177
that I get the appeal of the sub only tournaments because it's definitely more

00:19:42.177 --> 00:19:45.117
like yeah it's definitely more.

00:19:46.577 --> 00:19:50.017
It's like again UFC 1 it's sort of like more the grace

00:19:50.017 --> 00:19:52.797
is just talking about this shit all the time yeah but we don't know who the best martial artist is

00:19:52.797 --> 00:19:55.637
I'm like I get it that's really cool kind of

00:19:55.637 --> 00:19:58.417
do like it's like you can merge the martial arts a little

00:19:58.417 --> 00:20:01.117
bit with kind of the game and to an

00:20:01.117 --> 00:20:04.217
extent like an entertainment value yeah like it just it

00:20:04.217 --> 00:20:06.877
makes sense you're still gonna find out who the better martial artist but also the

00:20:06.877 --> 00:20:09.897
better competitor is yeah i know the rules you're not allowing groin

00:20:09.897 --> 00:20:13.737
strikes and crazy shit like you know whatever ufc gracies

00:20:13.737 --> 00:20:17.977
like i get it but at the same time like we make

00:20:17.977 --> 00:20:21.617
it make it happen yeah i mean it has to be it's a

00:20:21.617 --> 00:20:24.597
sport it's a spectator sport at the end of the day like if you

00:20:24.597 --> 00:20:27.517
want this to be if you want competition to grow

00:20:27.517 --> 00:20:30.217
people need to watch it and so

00:20:30.217 --> 00:20:33.177
if you don't have it be exciting then like i mean

00:20:33.177 --> 00:20:35.957
that that's why a lot of people don't watch you know don't watch

00:20:35.957 --> 00:20:38.997
those super fights or like finals where

00:20:38.997 --> 00:20:44.137
it's like 20 minutes long like that's a long time to watch something especially

00:20:44.137 --> 00:20:49.637
if the rule set doesn't encourage so um it's brutal man yeah and then like i

00:20:49.637 --> 00:20:53.157
in my opinion i think like the the we'll call it the business incentives of

00:20:53.157 --> 00:20:56.697
creating a product that people want to watch and then you know their attention

00:20:56.697 --> 00:20:58.777
and their money brings opportunity this.

00:20:58.997 --> 00:21:03.437
Cultivates a path for better for folks who want to make a career out of this

00:21:03.437 --> 00:21:07.717
because I mean, even really now, like I don't think the type of money exists

00:21:07.717 --> 00:21:11.397
that anyone can, well, there are some leagues out there starting to promote P P G F.

00:21:11.497 --> 00:21:13.797
You mentioned there, they're a good one where they're, they're throwing like

00:21:13.797 --> 00:21:16.377
legit numbers at guys to go out and win.

00:21:16.817 --> 00:21:19.577
That goes to one person. I think eventually, like I think they have a hundred

00:21:19.577 --> 00:21:21.257
thousand dollars. They do.

00:21:21.957 --> 00:21:26.757
There's, they do a team. So whichever team has like the, basically the team

00:21:26.757 --> 00:21:30.057
with the most submissions at the end of the day, and least against, too.

00:21:30.157 --> 00:21:33.337
That's another part of it. It's almost like a whole different sport because

00:21:33.337 --> 00:21:36.057
they have team points based on... And there's money for that.

00:21:36.137 --> 00:21:37.537
And those guys are making... Totally.

00:21:37.717 --> 00:21:41.937
That's cool. So they'll split money up for the whole team and then they also have the...

00:21:42.901 --> 00:21:45.961
Other end of it where like you get to the individual tournament right and

00:21:45.961 --> 00:21:48.741
so though that guy also gets money which is great i love that

00:21:48.741 --> 00:21:51.461
it's just it's what my my reason for bringing it up

00:21:51.461 --> 00:21:54.461
is because like unless you're the guy who makes you

00:21:54.461 --> 00:21:57.821
know probably you get you win some of the team money but then you also get 100 g's

00:21:57.821 --> 00:22:00.481
for winning the whole thing now you're talking about money you can live

00:22:00.481 --> 00:22:03.421
off of yeah but like that's if you're not that guy like but

00:22:03.421 --> 00:22:06.221
you're you're still out there you're getting paid some money it's probably decent money

00:22:06.221 --> 00:22:08.841
for our sport but if you're gonna make a career out of

00:22:08.841 --> 00:22:11.641
just being a competitor like you just want to be a professional athlete you got

00:22:11.641 --> 00:22:14.541
to compete quite a bit and you can't just be in one league

00:22:14.541 --> 00:22:17.281
you got to be able to go to multiple different places where they throw a little

00:22:17.281 --> 00:22:21.121
bit of money at you because a a fairly large

00:22:21.121 --> 00:22:23.841
paycheck in this space will be probably to like five to like

00:22:23.841 --> 00:22:26.821
20 g's you can't live off of that yeah it's

00:22:26.821 --> 00:22:29.581
good money like for it's acceptable money it's good

00:22:29.581 --> 00:22:33.161
when you look at it's like oh i went to making two days of competition

00:22:33.161 --> 00:22:35.981
totally but when you look at everything like the

00:22:35.981 --> 00:22:39.801
preparation leading up to it the um you

00:22:39.801 --> 00:22:42.641
know the people that are involved in that like all of

00:22:42.641 --> 00:22:45.821
that you have this there's a lot of other pieces

00:22:45.821 --> 00:22:48.701
where you're not necessarily getting paid or i

00:22:48.701 --> 00:22:51.721
mean if you're lucky you have sponsors that are supporting that

00:22:51.721 --> 00:22:55.741
in that might just be in stuff so stuff you're not spending money on but if

00:22:55.741 --> 00:22:59.701
you are at you know depending on what level you're at you might be getting sponsors

00:22:59.701 --> 00:23:04.281
that are helping that you're living off of it might be a little bit but at least

00:23:04.281 --> 00:23:09.381
it's something but you know you might have no money coming in from like if you're competing.

00:23:10.141 --> 00:23:12.961
Once a month which you know some people do

00:23:12.961 --> 00:23:16.541
more some people do less but if you're competing once a month and you

00:23:16.541 --> 00:23:19.461
might only be getting sometimes you get five thousand dollars a month sometimes

00:23:19.461 --> 00:23:22.581
you might get zero yeah so like there is

00:23:22.581 --> 00:23:25.681
also that and so you have to look at the preparation side

00:23:25.681 --> 00:23:28.521
of it too of like it's very easy to be like well that guy won a hundred thousand

00:23:28.521 --> 00:23:31.601
dollars why is he not eating so well he had to pay all these other dudes

00:23:31.601 --> 00:23:34.401
or got ready to pay yeah he's got to pays rent

00:23:34.401 --> 00:23:37.181
that's been building up for the past you know

00:23:37.181 --> 00:23:40.141
no i get it well this is just my that's my oh but my appeal

00:23:40.141 --> 00:23:42.801
to having a good product that people want to

00:23:42.801 --> 00:23:47.421
watch that brings eyes and money and then justifies these organizations their

00:23:47.421 --> 00:23:51.181
companies their businesses they got a business model they need to make money

00:23:51.181 --> 00:23:54.581
if they're going to be spending it on athletes like it just has to be good oh

00:23:54.581 --> 00:23:57.701
absolutely so that's all that's all i'm saying that's all i'm saying i don't

00:23:57.701 --> 00:23:59.981
disagree the tournaments or the the

00:23:59.981 --> 00:24:02.741
competitions need to be like kind of entertaining and they can't be like,

00:24:03.261 --> 00:24:07.161
miserable to watch for like 90 minutes two dudes oh yeah you need that's all

00:24:07.161 --> 00:24:09.941
I gotta say you definitely need some production value but so like.

00:24:10.861 --> 00:24:16.181
I think it's something important to talk about is you know we we touched on

00:24:16.181 --> 00:24:18.261
how there are different rule sets but like how do you,

00:24:18.955 --> 00:24:21.795
like preparing for those right like we both done

00:24:21.795 --> 00:24:24.835
a bunch of competing in a bunch of different rule sets

00:24:24.835 --> 00:24:27.715
like i've had the cage grappling i mean mma

00:24:27.715 --> 00:24:30.555
is you know that's a whole different thing we're not going to worry to

00:24:30.555 --> 00:24:33.475
dive too deep into that that's a different it's a

00:24:33.475 --> 00:24:36.375
different sport talk about a little bit for what it's worth it's a different sport there

00:24:36.375 --> 00:24:39.195
actually is a career path yeah it's very difficult and

00:24:39.195 --> 00:24:41.235
even some of the guys you get to the highest level of the us you they're not

00:24:41.235 --> 00:24:42.195
making a life-changing money

00:24:42.195 --> 00:24:46.295
yeah but but nonetheless it exists it's just different there's the preparation

00:24:46.295 --> 00:24:50.155
there but you know if you just kind of boil it down just the different rule

00:24:50.155 --> 00:24:53.815
sets within grappling like you know we've done we've both done submission only

00:24:53.815 --> 00:25:00.515
i've done some cage matches like the cage grappling um wrestling matches submission wrestling you know,

00:25:01.095 --> 00:25:04.495
ibjjf and like i mean list goes on we're not named too many uh but you know

00:25:04.495 --> 00:25:08.435
there's a bunch we've both we've both you know prepared for different rule sets

00:25:08.435 --> 00:25:13.515
and so like let's maybe let's talk a little bit about like how that um how that

00:25:13.515 --> 00:25:17.135
preparation differs we don't have to get too much into detail for each one,

00:25:17.275 --> 00:25:21.915
but kind of like maybe we can touch on a couple different like pathways that

00:25:21.915 --> 00:25:24.115
you take just kind of depending on the rule set.

00:25:24.255 --> 00:25:28.435
Like for example, if I'm training for submission only, I'm going to do,

00:25:28.775 --> 00:25:32.015
I'm going to be focusing on getting to top.

00:25:32.810 --> 00:25:35.690
Getting to my submission, this is because I'm mainly a top player,

00:25:35.930 --> 00:25:40.010
but like getting to that top position,

00:25:40.410 --> 00:25:43.370
whether that's getting out, you know, I'll practice getting out of the bad position

00:25:43.370 --> 00:25:48.530
on bottom or, you know, sweeping from bottom, takedowns especially.

00:25:49.030 --> 00:25:52.710
I mean, that was how he would usually approach it is I'm going to get that takedown.

00:25:52.830 --> 00:25:54.850
If I get that person on their back, I'm getting myself.

00:25:55.310 --> 00:25:58.470
That's, that's, that was my progression each time. If I can get them on their

00:25:58.470 --> 00:26:00.930
back and get through their hips, they're subbed.

00:26:01.110 --> 00:26:04.970
Like it's, I've already, I already know like that is the next step.

00:26:05.410 --> 00:26:11.070
Um, so what I'm doing, that's, that is my goal on top of, I'm going to get my cardio up.

00:26:11.170 --> 00:26:15.310
I want to be able to, you know, in the nerdiest way to put it.

00:26:16.130 --> 00:26:20.930
Spam those takedowns, spam those submissions, because that is,

00:26:21.250 --> 00:26:24.250
that's what in my game is going to win me that,

00:26:24.370 --> 00:26:28.110
that specific rule set versus if i'm doing ibjjf i'm

00:26:28.110 --> 00:26:31.130
just training for points i know what you're saying basically what we're talking about

00:26:31.130 --> 00:26:33.930
okay so like if for the on this

00:26:33.930 --> 00:26:36.770
train of thought there's let's maybe we

00:26:36.770 --> 00:26:39.450
can find like three different styles yeah most common there'd be

00:26:39.450 --> 00:26:42.170
like a sub only or sub only oriented tournament think like

00:26:42.170 --> 00:26:44.970
fight to win or copa elite yeah for example

00:26:44.970 --> 00:26:47.990
who's number one uh there's adcc rule set

00:26:47.990 --> 00:26:50.730
we talked a little bit about that and there's ibjf and there's some

00:26:50.730 --> 00:26:53.970
other stuff out there but those are like the big three so um

00:26:53.970 --> 00:26:56.950
in any one of those spaces you have offense and

00:26:56.950 --> 00:27:00.190
defense so maybe we talk a little bit about what how we

00:27:00.190 --> 00:27:02.890
would do maybe maybe boil it even you know

00:27:02.890 --> 00:27:07.590
down to just how do you train differently but what is constant across them that

00:27:07.590 --> 00:27:11.010
might be that might be the better um that way we have kind of we can we don't

00:27:11.010 --> 00:27:15.970
have to talk about too deeply into all of them so like um maybe let's just let's

00:27:15.970 --> 00:27:19.910
all like i'll just start with that one like with sub only those are things that

00:27:19.910 --> 00:27:22.250
are more specific to that one for me.

00:27:24.950 --> 00:27:29.910
But in a little bit of his depending on the type of promotion of his tournament style um,

00:27:30.433 --> 00:27:34.273
I might not train for as flashy of a thing, but if I'm going,

00:27:34.453 --> 00:27:38.533
if it's one-on-one super fight style as well, might try to put on,

00:27:38.653 --> 00:27:41.093
you know, do something that's a little more showy, you know,

00:27:41.213 --> 00:27:43.153
working some cartwheel passes. A little more glitz and glamour.

00:27:43.333 --> 00:27:45.033
You know, some spectacle stuff.

00:27:45.353 --> 00:27:50.533
You can feel like, I'm willing to take bigger risks for that style too.

00:27:50.733 --> 00:27:54.193
Like when I, you got one opponent, a few minutes, make it a show.

00:27:54.353 --> 00:27:59.073
And if you lose, at least as long as you look good doing it,

00:27:59.293 --> 00:28:00.913
because there is some, you know, if you can look good doing it,

00:28:01.013 --> 00:28:04.853
lose with some grace and put on a good show, you're probably getting invited back. Oh, for sure.

00:28:04.973 --> 00:28:08.253
You know, like if you can throw that one big slam, doesn't matter if you lose,

00:28:08.553 --> 00:28:11.693
you get that sweet takedown that everyone who's in Oz about,

00:28:11.953 --> 00:28:13.813
you might get invited back next time.

00:28:13.953 --> 00:28:17.913
Then you can continue down, continue playing this game and getting better at it.

00:28:18.413 --> 00:28:20.293
Well, to your point. Okay. So agreed.

00:28:21.073 --> 00:28:23.833
There's a, well, like, you know, we, we touched on it a second ago,

00:28:24.133 --> 00:28:29.573
which is there are something that it's consistent across all fighting rule sets,

00:28:29.573 --> 00:28:32.013
It's all game rule sets, which is offense and defense.

00:28:32.253 --> 00:28:34.633
These are general categories, and you mentioned this a moment ago.

00:28:35.133 --> 00:28:41.033
And then beneath that, too, there's the raw physical attributes. You mentioned cardio.

00:28:41.373 --> 00:28:43.673
Strength is another one, so on and so forth.

00:28:44.073 --> 00:28:48.333
There are these things that whether you're training for a tournament or not,

00:28:48.653 --> 00:28:51.373
there's going to be that sort of thing.

00:28:53.473 --> 00:28:56.433
That's built into your training regardless. Anytime you're on the mat,

00:28:56.553 --> 00:28:57.593
you're going to be working on your cardio.

00:28:57.593 --> 00:29:00.993
You're going to be working on your strength. through me working on your your tactics your

00:29:00.993 --> 00:29:04.833
mobility your speed your cadence

00:29:04.833 --> 00:29:08.353
of changing speed these are maybe more the physical attributes and

00:29:08.353 --> 00:29:12.093
then how that applies into your offense and your defense and that's where because

00:29:12.093 --> 00:29:19.373
of the details for which game you're playing ibgf adcc or other sub only whatever

00:29:19.373 --> 00:29:25.653
super fight call what you want um those little those those just training formats,

00:29:25.713 --> 00:29:27.453
your drills, the way you spar.

00:29:28.653 --> 00:29:30.873
You'll have to pivot a little bit in those things, but they're all,

00:29:31.073 --> 00:29:32.093
it's very similar, right?

00:29:32.213 --> 00:29:35.153
So when you look at, like, when you aggregate out, like, the time you spend

00:29:35.153 --> 00:29:39.193
on a monthly basis, quarterly basis, whatever, in your training.

00:29:39.433 --> 00:29:42.033
And I think we talked a little bit about this in one of our older episodes,

00:29:42.173 --> 00:29:46.213
just, like, programming, if you will. Like, there's a certain...

00:29:46.764 --> 00:29:49.504
Uh, template to how you want to spend your time on the mat.

00:29:49.664 --> 00:29:52.484
I know we also talked about how there's limitations, how much time do you spend

00:29:52.484 --> 00:29:53.884
on the mat and like get your body banged up.

00:29:53.964 --> 00:29:57.484
But like, this goes into the way you like set yourself up so that when you're

00:29:57.484 --> 00:30:02.024
looking at your year, your months, and you're like, I want to do an ADCC trials

00:30:02.024 --> 00:30:03.784
tournament. I want to do IBJF pans.

00:30:03.924 --> 00:30:06.404
I want to do, there's probably going to be a couple of super fight opportunities,

00:30:06.604 --> 00:30:10.044
whether it's COPA fight to win, whatever, pack those bad boys in there too.

00:30:10.284 --> 00:30:12.964
You schedule out your time and then you think about, all right, now that I've

00:30:12.964 --> 00:30:16.524
got a list of goals and things I'm going to go do for

00:30:16.524 --> 00:30:19.184
all of the reasons you mentioned earlier about benefiting and what you're like

00:30:19.184 --> 00:30:23.784
hey i want to be a competitive athlete not just a guy who trains um the

00:30:23.784 --> 00:30:29.704
way i'm going to spend my time on the mat is now thought through and then seasonality

00:30:29.704 --> 00:30:33.484
wise like going into it you're like okay maybe you look at the the overall year

00:30:33.484 --> 00:30:36.424
and you're like towards the end of the year i have nogi pans i have nogi worlds

00:30:36.424 --> 00:30:40.684
i have xyz all right i might pivot my training a little bit over to That earlier in the year,

00:30:40.864 --> 00:30:43.604
usually there's an ADCC trials, which is in the spring.

00:30:44.804 --> 00:30:48.424
Usually that's West Coast trials. East Coast trials is usually in the fall.

00:30:49.464 --> 00:30:52.304
That's Atlantic City, you name it. And you'll think about how you're like,

00:30:52.364 --> 00:30:56.964
okay, that means six to eight weeks in advance or two months in advance,

00:30:57.104 --> 00:30:58.104
three months in advance.

00:30:58.584 --> 00:31:02.344
I have to tweak my training, but only a little bit.

00:31:02.944 --> 00:31:06.724
Maybe pick slightly different training partners. Work with a coach or two on

00:31:06.724 --> 00:31:09.724
what those adjustments, what those tweaks need to be. and then going back to

00:31:09.724 --> 00:31:13.884
programming, if you know Monday through Saturday or Sunday or whatever your program looks like.

00:31:14.932 --> 00:31:18.272
10 to 15 hours of training plus in that

00:31:18.272 --> 00:31:22.012
is strength and conditioning and then the rest of your life recovery

00:31:22.012 --> 00:31:24.792
yeah uh anyways like with that you're

00:31:24.792 --> 00:31:27.732
like okay well i have four wrestle four times

00:31:27.732 --> 00:31:30.632
a week that'll be really good for adcc it's also good for ibgs i

00:31:30.632 --> 00:31:33.512
don't need to change that too too much i have to stick my takedowns a

00:31:33.512 --> 00:31:36.672
lot more definitively in adcc you gotta

00:31:36.672 --> 00:31:40.432
flatten them out or they that's a shoulders on the mat three seconds right yeah

00:31:40.432 --> 00:31:43.872
that's right dude it's a beast but but anyways but like yeah i have to like

00:31:43.872 --> 00:31:46.532
make my adjustments there okay i do like you know whatever the number of wrestling

00:31:46.532 --> 00:31:50.792
sessions is and then i have jiu-jitsu sessions i do i teach in the gi or whatever

00:31:50.792 --> 00:31:53.712
okay so that's one hour it's gonna take a toll on my body don't be that bad,

00:31:54.172 --> 00:31:58.792
uh i gotta think about that and then my no gi sessions if i have uh a super

00:31:58.792 --> 00:32:04.772
might super fight sub only or adcc um where if i'm gonna win in jiu-jitsu it

00:32:04.772 --> 00:32:08.712
has to be a little bit differently has to be a little more definitively i.e.

00:32:09.312 --> 00:32:12.772
Submissions just as an example yeah okay when i'm doing my jiu-jitsu training

00:32:12.772 --> 00:32:18.072
we do our 8 a.m saturday practices let's tweak our hour that we're on the mat

00:32:18.072 --> 00:32:23.872
and make those drills a little more steered towards the submission rather than just.

00:32:24.852 --> 00:32:27.952
Positional grappling because of the incentive structure

00:32:27.952 --> 00:32:30.752
of the the game that i'm going into so yes yeah rather than

00:32:30.752 --> 00:32:33.612
focusing on i need to score you know first to score

00:32:33.612 --> 00:32:36.372
or whatever i mean sometimes you still have

00:32:36.372 --> 00:32:39.032
that but like just as an example you might be

00:32:39.032 --> 00:32:41.972
like all right well today we're going to do you know you have

00:32:41.972 --> 00:32:44.832
this position you person on bottom needs to score two

00:32:44.832 --> 00:32:47.672
person on top needs three or four whatever i

00:32:47.672 --> 00:32:52.572
don't know but like um you know you might have that for one style but then for

00:32:52.572 --> 00:32:56.552
another it might be like doesn't matter who scores you got to get a sub the

00:32:56.552 --> 00:33:02.352
other person gets out then you you've lost or whatever like you you you doctor

00:33:02.352 --> 00:33:05.792
your sessions and like i I look at it a similar way,

00:33:06.052 --> 00:33:07.892
like you can almost, like I almost look at it like, all right,

00:33:07.972 --> 00:33:10.232
I have X number of opportunities,

00:33:10.612 --> 00:33:13.692
I have X number of sessions between now and that next.

00:33:14.932 --> 00:33:19.312
How am I going to allocate those? Like, especially since a lot of,

00:33:19.432 --> 00:33:24.352
with the exception of the 8 a.m.s, I have a lot more, like, I have to control

00:33:24.352 --> 00:33:27.612
three of those sessions. I have to dictate and program.

00:33:27.732 --> 00:33:30.212
You're running the class, is what you're saying. I'm running those sessions.

00:33:30.292 --> 00:33:31.952
And you have a different role when you're on that session, too.

00:33:32.032 --> 00:33:34.292
It's a little more about your students. It's not about you. Exactly.

00:33:34.592 --> 00:33:38.312
So, like, you kind of have to figure out, like, all right, how do I guide this

00:33:38.312 --> 00:33:46.552
in a way that when we get to the open map portion of it that they're going to be prepared for you know.

00:33:47.012 --> 00:33:51.152
Or hey we've been working on whatever like

00:33:51.152 --> 00:33:54.572
right now i'm doing a lot of things i'm preparing guys so that i have they

00:33:54.572 --> 00:33:57.572
have a skill set that's going to help me with you can do that you.

00:33:57.572 --> 00:34:00.392
Can help them help you yeah there's a way to do

00:34:00.392 --> 00:34:03.592
it or it's still beneficial for them it's not yeah exactly i'm

00:34:03.592 --> 00:34:07.152
with you create drills that help them help

00:34:07.152 --> 00:34:09.932
you later yes exactly and so like you have to almost you have

00:34:09.932 --> 00:34:13.012
to like super deep program or like hey

00:34:13.012 --> 00:34:16.012
i know that you know a training partner who's

00:34:16.012 --> 00:34:18.872
good at something that i'm bad at is going to be here on

00:34:18.872 --> 00:34:21.952
tuesdays i need to let's welcome

00:34:21.952 --> 00:34:24.832
this dude's game a little bit more than than mine

00:34:24.832 --> 00:34:27.852
yeah like i need i'm gonna hop on this guy on tuesday and

00:34:27.852 --> 00:34:30.512
be like hey just do your thing and i'm gonna

00:34:30.512 --> 00:34:33.532
try with a bunch of leg locks yeah hit me with a bunch your leg off or hey smash

00:34:33.532 --> 00:34:36.412
the shit out of me i'm gonna i need to get out you know

00:34:36.412 --> 00:34:39.172
like those kinds of things where like you gotta really like

00:34:39.172 --> 00:34:42.232
almost micromanage your own training um so

00:34:42.232 --> 00:34:45.172
that you get the most out of your set number of

00:34:45.172 --> 00:34:47.832
sessions because like it's not like that like you

00:34:47.832 --> 00:34:50.972
talked at the beginning i was doing three three sessions a

00:34:50.972 --> 00:34:54.132
day it was very easy when you have three opportunities

00:34:54.132 --> 00:34:57.112
every day five six days a week to

00:34:57.112 --> 00:35:00.132
you know when you're when your rest day is only doing one

00:35:00.132 --> 00:35:03.232
um right you know on this on so it's

00:35:03.232 --> 00:35:06.052
very easy to take that and make it

00:35:06.052 --> 00:35:08.852
a and you can

00:35:08.852 --> 00:35:12.292
have whatever program you want you have so many opportunities but

00:35:12.292 --> 00:35:15.232
when you start shrinking that down to now i have one a

00:35:15.232 --> 00:35:17.892
day like now my programming has to be tighter i

00:35:17.892 --> 00:35:21.152
almost have to like micro program be like all right this is

00:35:21.152 --> 00:35:23.932
what we're going to work on while i'm teaching and you know i might get

00:35:23.932 --> 00:35:26.672
a couple sets in or just me teaching it is going.

00:35:26.672 --> 00:35:29.452
To help me like focus on that skill like.

00:35:29.452 --> 00:35:32.332
I'll get a couple reps just discussing it or showing it

00:35:32.332 --> 00:35:35.992
to someone but like me teaching it is going to help me with.

00:35:35.992 --> 00:35:39.132
Thinking through it and you know that that

00:35:39.132 --> 00:35:41.952
knowledge pathway is going to help me prepare but

00:35:41.952 --> 00:35:48.312
then also how am i gonna how am i gonna focus my roles at the end of class or

00:35:48.312 --> 00:35:53.732
so that i'm actually working the right things to help me do the the tournament

00:35:53.732 --> 00:35:57.332
it makes you better at time management yeah basically which is which is a life

00:35:57.332 --> 00:36:01.872
skill by the way and there's there's an overlap in overall human development there.

00:36:02.012 --> 00:36:07.072
But yes, it gets one, one thing I would say is that I personally think like,

00:36:07.112 --> 00:36:10.472
as I've gotten older and I've gotten more busy with other things, I like that more.

00:36:11.179 --> 00:36:14.139
I'm not in a position, well, some days of the week I'm on the mat,

00:36:14.319 --> 00:36:17.259
like four or five hours, which is, yeah, kind of a lot, but whatever.

00:36:17.779 --> 00:36:21.839
And usually in that chunk of time, it's, you know, whether it's a private lesson

00:36:21.839 --> 00:36:26.059
or teaching a class, it does go back to what you said, where it's oriented towards

00:36:26.059 --> 00:36:27.439
someone other than myself.

00:36:28.659 --> 00:36:31.539
Nonetheless, there's a benefit to me when I do that, but I'm not

00:36:31.539 --> 00:36:34.279
in that position where I just take like six classes a night and

00:36:34.279 --> 00:36:38.159
it's for myself mostly to go learn um but

00:36:38.159 --> 00:36:42.259
when to your point when you're limited in

00:36:42.259 --> 00:36:45.119
time on the mat whether that's because

00:36:45.119 --> 00:36:48.039
you can't you can only recover from so much or you know you're

00:36:48.039 --> 00:36:50.839
just busy whatever you got kids you got stuff you got a wife and kids like

00:36:50.839 --> 00:36:54.979
you just have obligations and you only have x number of minutes or hours or

00:36:54.979 --> 00:36:58.519
whatever to do this it makes you think about the purpose of that training yeah

00:36:58.519 --> 00:37:02.359
and one thing i i want to uh call out to that you mentioned earlier which is

00:37:02.359 --> 00:37:06.719
that what i like about this competition mindset is it does it makes you ask

00:37:06.719 --> 00:37:09.779
those questions and you touched upon this earlier where you're thinking about your,

00:37:10.319 --> 00:37:13.339
how do i play how do i apply my

00:37:13.339 --> 00:37:16.239
skills what's my game plan i call it a game plan what's

00:37:16.239 --> 00:37:19.139
my game plan to win and to your point earlier

00:37:19.139 --> 00:37:21.919
you mentioned this and this is what i want to talk about which

00:37:21.919 --> 00:37:25.299
is that when you were like all right the way i the way i fight which for

00:37:25.299 --> 00:37:27.999
what it's worth i want to call out this applies to all of the

00:37:27.999 --> 00:37:31.319
rule sets that we talked about oh yeah it's like an underlying way to

00:37:31.319 --> 00:37:34.439
win and that's another benefit of being competitors

00:37:34.439 --> 00:37:37.519
that gets you asked the questions like how do i win this thing how do i what's

00:37:37.519 --> 00:37:40.279
the objective and how do i achieve an objective that's another skill for life

00:37:40.279 --> 00:37:44.559
but to your point you're like all right i want to take someone down and if i

00:37:44.559 --> 00:37:47.479
know i get to their hip or whatever i'm putting myself in a position to apply

00:37:47.479 --> 00:37:50.979
my offense and from there i'm going to start spamming submissions right but

00:37:50.979 --> 00:37:53.839
with that said and this kind of.

00:37:54.533 --> 00:37:58.573
I mentioned this earlier. There are a ton of overlaps. What I like about everything

00:37:58.573 --> 00:38:01.473
we said, it does get you hyper-specific, but at a certain point, you take a step back.

00:38:01.553 --> 00:38:04.073
There's a macro picture where there's some degree of simplicity,

00:38:04.073 --> 00:38:07.313
which is like, all right, I know that at the end of the day,

00:38:07.413 --> 00:38:09.633
what I always want to do is I always want to be on top.

00:38:10.393 --> 00:38:14.613
I always want to be on top, which means I want to be good at wrestling or good enough at wrestling.

00:38:14.653 --> 00:38:17.473
The other guy wants to pull guard where he's allowed to or if he's willing to

00:38:17.473 --> 00:38:19.353
take a penalty for it, cool, you gave me what I wanted.

00:38:19.433 --> 00:38:22.473
I didn't have to work for it. I'm going to want to be already. Right, exactly.

00:38:22.653 --> 00:38:25.673
And you did it for me. or like i have that superiority in

00:38:25.673 --> 00:38:28.353
wrestling that if dude's a dog enough to want to fight on the

00:38:28.353 --> 00:38:31.813
feet i'm gonna win it that's cool too that that's

00:38:31.813 --> 00:38:35.213
great um in all of those rule sets

00:38:35.213 --> 00:38:38.273
it being on top having that wrestling superiority

00:38:38.273 --> 00:38:41.193
gives you a way to win too while you may want to submit

00:38:41.193 --> 00:38:45.533
them you obviously do like your underlying

00:38:45.533 --> 00:38:48.493
skill set that you're constantly working on across your

00:38:48.493 --> 00:38:51.373
weeks and your months again you take that step back like

00:38:51.373 --> 00:38:54.213
well i'm always doing the work that involves me being in top

00:38:54.213 --> 00:38:57.233
position so therefore I'm always working on honing that

00:38:57.233 --> 00:39:00.113
skill um if I

00:39:00.113 --> 00:39:02.993
continually do that and put myself in a position to like when I

00:39:02.993 --> 00:39:07.953
coach people I always try to like when I impose my my my worldview on them um

00:39:07.953 --> 00:39:11.693
which is like a teaching method I do it just to like build a framework for someone

00:39:11.693 --> 00:39:14.633
to understand how these games are played and then I'm like hey look go become

00:39:14.633 --> 00:39:17.773
a leg locker if you want you can go be a guard puller I'm gonna teach you not

00:39:17.773 --> 00:39:21.253
to but I'm not gonna tell you not to I'm not gonna tell you not to actually I would welcome it if you,

00:39:21.773 --> 00:39:24.433
got to a point where like that was your unique skill set and you're nasty at

00:39:24.433 --> 00:39:27.533
it that's cool well and then you work and then yeah and that's a great training

00:39:27.533 --> 00:39:30.853
partner like you said that's a compliment to the overall program and for sure

00:39:30.853 --> 00:39:34.753
yourself and then for other people like if cause I also am of the same philosophy

00:39:34.753 --> 00:39:36.813
I want to be on top I want to be like death from above.

00:39:37.453 --> 00:39:39.853
Air superiority is what I call it but anyways like.

00:39:40.958 --> 00:39:44.678
In any rule set that you're in, being able to get the person down and then attack

00:39:44.678 --> 00:39:47.978
them from top position, there's a way for you, even if you're unsuccessful.

00:39:47.978 --> 00:39:49.778
These are what the tiers of the match, as I say.

00:39:50.078 --> 00:39:53.718
It's like, be on top, whether that means you took them down or they gave up on position.

00:39:54.478 --> 00:39:57.438
Attack the position for your guard passing, because that involves you moving

00:39:57.438 --> 00:39:59.158
forward, by the way. Now you're on offense.

00:39:59.458 --> 00:40:02.158
In the IBJJF, the referee's going to make a decision eventually.

00:40:02.158 --> 00:40:05.798
If there's no points, if there's no submissions, they're going to go with the

00:40:05.798 --> 00:40:06.718
person who is more offensive.

00:40:06.898 --> 00:40:09.038
So it's sort of like, okay, they acquiesced to bottom position.

00:40:09.418 --> 00:40:11.818
They probably have the reasons for me. Maybe they think their submissions from

00:40:11.818 --> 00:40:14.258
the bottom are better than your attacks and defense from the top.

00:40:14.578 --> 00:40:17.698
Let's prove them wrong. Let's go put them on defense. And then if you're successful

00:40:17.698 --> 00:40:19.338
at that, you're getting points.

00:40:19.498 --> 00:40:22.858
That's why I like that. Because sort of as you're working towards your position

00:40:22.858 --> 00:40:26.358
where you're going to attack your submission, you're also gaining points in the IBJF.

00:40:26.578 --> 00:40:28.538
In theory, you're also doing that in ADCC.

00:40:29.278 --> 00:40:32.018
ADCC, yeah, it's different. The points are very difficult to get.

00:40:32.078 --> 00:40:35.598
There are actually no points in the first half of the match. The points toggle in.

00:40:35.858 --> 00:40:41.878
They do six-minute matches for trials. or all of their matches at each level,

00:40:41.998 --> 00:40:46.078
whether it's trials or whether it's the ADCC Worlds when you get into that,

00:40:46.598 --> 00:40:50.898
time limits change, but it's a halfway point to the match where they start to bring in the points.

00:40:51.178 --> 00:40:54.618
At that phase in the match, if you can continue to do that, yes,

00:40:54.638 --> 00:40:58.218
that's done a little bit differently, which is the positional top attacking

00:40:58.218 --> 00:40:59.698
when someone's actually on the ground.

00:41:00.058 --> 00:41:03.638
If you do that well, if you pass their guard to get to your submission point,

00:41:03.858 --> 00:41:05.278
like you're winning points is what I'm saying.

00:41:05.318 --> 00:41:08.158
So it's sort of like force the person into these tiers of the game.

00:41:08.158 --> 00:41:10.838
All right we're gonna get into the ground if you take them down

00:41:10.838 --> 00:41:13.598
you get points that if they sit down whether it's

00:41:13.598 --> 00:41:16.758
IBJF or or ADCC there's a way they can do

00:41:16.758 --> 00:41:19.558
that to where it penalizes them so they have to do that correctly either way

00:41:19.558 --> 00:41:22.558
it gets you to the second phase of the match you're going to attack the guard

00:41:22.558 --> 00:41:28.778
pass if you're unsuccessful but you're constantly working to do that in theory

00:41:28.778 --> 00:41:31.618
and and I'll put it this way like if you're doing it in a way where it's clear

00:41:31.618 --> 00:41:34.718
to the referee like I've been the one who's been attacking this guy's been defending

00:41:34.718 --> 00:41:39.118
but he hasn't done anything else you should be the person who gets the victory.

00:41:39.398 --> 00:41:41.738
Yeah. That doesn't happen because referees function up all the time.

00:41:41.878 --> 00:41:44.958
That's okay. But that's a whole other conversation.

00:41:46.038 --> 00:41:48.998
That's also part of the equation. That's another metaphor for life.

00:41:49.078 --> 00:41:51.738
You can do everything right and still get fucked over. That's just a whole other thing.

00:41:52.198 --> 00:41:55.778
But if you do that right too, let's say you actually successfully hit that tier

00:41:55.778 --> 00:41:59.398
of the match, and now you advance past that guard, you should be getting points

00:41:59.398 --> 00:42:01.358
for that. Okay, now you're winning that match.

00:42:02.078 --> 00:42:04.618
And then we're in a position now, we're going to hit them with our subs.

00:42:04.758 --> 00:42:07.218
We're going to dominate from top position. These are all also,

00:42:07.338 --> 00:42:09.238
by the way, things that overlap,

00:42:09.937 --> 00:42:12.997
with the martial arts philosophy, too. So there's like a tiered,

00:42:13.217 --> 00:42:18.117
baked-in way where you can kind of do all of the above in a proper way.

00:42:18.717 --> 00:42:21.777
People love to shit on the IBJJF rules all the time, and I get it.

00:42:23.237 --> 00:42:27.497
For what it's worth, what I always... I have two thoughts on it.

00:42:27.937 --> 00:42:31.337
The main one is that it's kind of a de facto pro league, and I'm just glad that

00:42:31.337 --> 00:42:33.237
we have one. And that they're organized.

00:42:33.757 --> 00:42:37.257
Yes, they have a lot of problems. I have personally been on the receiving end

00:42:37.257 --> 00:42:40.017
of bad decisions and things like that, and I've known a lot of dudes who have

00:42:40.017 --> 00:42:41.897
two. I get it. That sucks.

00:42:42.157 --> 00:42:44.297
I don't think it's gone anywhere. Hopefully that gets better.

00:42:44.517 --> 00:42:46.997
If there's some exposure, maybe some accountability, that will happen.

00:42:47.517 --> 00:42:50.657
But they're out there putting on matches. They're all over the world.

00:42:51.037 --> 00:42:53.597
Like, alright, it is what it is. Like, go do it.

00:42:54.517 --> 00:42:59.757
The second thing that I was going to say there is that the way they've built

00:42:59.757 --> 00:43:05.957
the rules is oriented towards what makes the martial art, like what the fueling,

00:43:06.577 --> 00:43:09.637
the fuel of the martial art, which is like Get points for passing,

00:43:09.737 --> 00:43:11.457
get in a good position, and then submit people. Yeah.

00:43:11.777 --> 00:43:16.037
Like, you can attack the little details on, like, how the referees and scoring

00:43:16.037 --> 00:43:17.217
and kind of, like, they make mistakes.

00:43:17.337 --> 00:43:21.817
There are no doubt about it. Yeah. Like, it's, can we fix the product a little bit? For sure.

00:43:21.977 --> 00:43:23.897
Product needs to be adjusted. But, like, it's not a bad product,

00:43:23.917 --> 00:43:26.297
in my opinion. Well, and it does a good job of, like, especially,

00:43:26.517 --> 00:43:27.877
it does achieve its goal.

00:43:28.077 --> 00:43:33.777
It incentivizes playing the game of jiu-jitsu.

00:43:35.197 --> 00:43:40.097
And so, you know, that's always good. And, um, you know, and yes,

00:43:40.237 --> 00:43:41.177
there's tons of different,

00:43:41.537 --> 00:43:46.897
like, there's a lot, there's probably a lot more that's similar between how

00:43:46.897 --> 00:43:50.257
you train and prepare for each single, each one.

00:43:50.457 --> 00:43:53.117
Like the most part, it's, you gotta be dictating pace.

00:43:53.337 --> 00:43:55.777
You gotta be in a position that you're comfortable winning from.

00:43:56.237 --> 00:44:01.457
And, you know, you gotta, you gotta be the one who does whatever the goals are

00:44:01.457 --> 00:44:07.457
for that specific game. so that you are the one that comes out winning in the end.

00:44:07.777 --> 00:44:11.897
And don't leave it up to a scoreless ref's decision as well. Agreed.

00:44:12.637 --> 00:44:19.957
And I think kind of the last thing that I want to kind of touch on with this is that the...

00:44:20.533 --> 00:44:25.073
Just the kind of, you know, what I like to say to people who are newer,

00:44:25.313 --> 00:44:31.113
newer to this, to jujitsu or haven't competed yet, or the competition curious.

00:44:31.593 --> 00:44:35.993
Um, I think that everyone should compete at least just once.

00:44:36.113 --> 00:44:41.733
I think that, um, there is a lot to gain from it and you don't have to want

00:44:41.733 --> 00:44:46.773
to be a hardcore competitor or even be a very competitive person.

00:44:46.773 --> 00:44:51.953
But I think that there are, there's a lot more to gain from just getting out

00:44:51.953 --> 00:44:54.533
there and competing for your, for yourself.

00:44:54.953 --> 00:44:58.553
Um, then there is from like, just training in the gym.

00:44:58.733 --> 00:45:03.333
Like there's, there's a big, a lot of guys and a lot of guys that I've trained

00:45:03.333 --> 00:45:08.213
with in the past currently in training with, you can see a lot more of those

00:45:08.213 --> 00:45:10.773
light bulbs and you see a lot more of that.

00:45:10.973 --> 00:45:14.073
Like you see a lot more of people's games

00:45:14.073 --> 00:45:17.313
open up or expand or you see their them

00:45:17.313 --> 00:45:20.193
just get better just through

00:45:20.193 --> 00:45:23.693
going to competition and that's because that stress

00:45:23.693 --> 00:45:27.053
situation is different that you're you're

00:45:27.053 --> 00:45:30.213
tackling those unknowns and you start to actually open

00:45:30.213 --> 00:45:33.373
up your game because now you're not just you

00:45:33.373 --> 00:45:36.993
know you're not just beating rob's whatever you

00:45:36.993 --> 00:45:39.973
know he he always pulls guard you got to pass that and

00:45:39.973 --> 00:45:42.993
then you pass guard and he shells up and now you're

00:45:42.993 --> 00:45:45.953
just sitting there doing the same thing because he's your buddy in the training yeah and

00:45:45.953 --> 00:45:48.733
you do so you just do the exact same thing over and

00:45:48.733 --> 00:45:51.733
over again but then you go out to a tournament and the person doesn't

00:45:51.733 --> 00:45:55.013
pull guard what do you do now or you don't train takedowns because

00:45:55.013 --> 00:45:59.673
your training partner doesn't like to train takedowns and then you go and you

00:45:59.673 --> 00:46:03.393
don't know what to do at your feet or you're not used to the stress situation

00:46:03.393 --> 00:46:08.093
of being under on bottom and so now you have someone on top of you and you don't

00:46:08.093 --> 00:46:14.853
know what do you gas out and then you quit on yourself and then you have to figure out how do i.

00:46:15.555 --> 00:46:18.835
I don't want to quit on myself. And then you can, you adapt to that.

00:46:18.995 --> 00:46:22.055
You get better and you no longer are quitting on yourself.

00:46:22.235 --> 00:46:24.315
You're out there and you become, even if you never compete again,

00:46:24.855 --> 00:46:26.335
you learned that that day.

00:46:26.375 --> 00:46:29.635
And now you're going to, you're now you're making adjustments in your game to

00:46:29.635 --> 00:46:30.895
get better or more comfortable.

00:46:31.435 --> 00:46:34.835
And, um, you know, it makes a huge difference.

00:46:35.555 --> 00:46:38.955
And, you know, again, it doesn't have to be your primary goal with jujitsu,

00:46:39.275 --> 00:46:44.755
but it does. I think that that is the main, like a really big part of,

00:46:44.955 --> 00:46:48.595
you know, Just get out there and compete because you're going to learn something.

00:46:48.855 --> 00:46:52.295
Even if it's once or even if you don't do well, no one's going to care.

00:46:53.055 --> 00:46:56.815
Everyone's going to be okay. They're still going to like you. It's fine, right?

00:46:57.475 --> 00:47:02.315
Totally. When it comes to talking to new people, something to your point, I agree.

00:47:02.895 --> 00:47:05.495
Obviously, it's two dudes you compete, so we understand the benefits.

00:47:05.795 --> 00:47:09.995
To the extent that I don't force it on people, but I highly recommend it too

00:47:10.375 --> 00:47:11.975
for all of the reasons you mentioned.

00:47:12.935 --> 00:47:15.815
It teaches you what you are good and not good at. that's

00:47:15.815 --> 00:47:18.755
that's i'll put it that way and then what i

00:47:18.755 --> 00:47:21.535
what i try to encourage folks to the to the best

00:47:21.535 --> 00:47:24.595
of my ability it's it's not easy to do you can't get in someone's head

00:47:24.595 --> 00:47:27.295
and then control the way they think you can encourage them or try

00:47:27.295 --> 00:47:30.135
to like steer them towards a certain outlook but i try

00:47:30.135 --> 00:47:33.255
to get folks to like detach from the outcomes a little bit as difficult as

00:47:33.255 --> 00:47:36.295
that is yeah that's not the way people are hardwired yeah myself included

00:47:36.295 --> 00:47:39.455
it takes a lot of work to kind of do this but with that

00:47:39.455 --> 00:47:42.495
with detaching from the outcomes and this is also something

00:47:42.495 --> 00:47:45.135
i try to like vet out with a new student who's going to go

00:47:45.135 --> 00:47:48.015
do it is like what their psychological profile is

00:47:48.015 --> 00:47:50.695
like can they handle a loss can they not handle a

00:47:50.695 --> 00:47:54.335
loss are they well how competitive are they um because

00:47:54.335 --> 00:47:58.535
what i don't want is someone to go in not prepared and

00:47:58.535 --> 00:48:01.235
then i feel like their world is crushed because they lost it

00:48:01.235 --> 00:48:04.355
it's not that big a deal it really isn't

00:48:04.355 --> 00:48:07.115
and and i try to make it more like surgical i'm

00:48:07.115 --> 00:48:09.755
like all right be like a surgeon here like these like this this is a

00:48:09.755 --> 00:48:12.435
game we're gonna go find out what you are good at what you're not good

00:48:12.435 --> 00:48:15.295
at what you know what you don't know and like we will find that out like

00:48:15.295 --> 00:48:19.935
it will and it it may not be exactly you if you think you're like some you know

00:48:19.935 --> 00:48:22.175
because maybe you're trying to psych yourself up for the tournament a little

00:48:22.175 --> 00:48:24.515
bit you're like i'm the man like i'm gonna go out there and this is gonna be

00:48:24.515 --> 00:48:27.975
great this is how i think it's going to go which every person does that that's

00:48:27.975 --> 00:48:31.655
not necessarily a bad thing you try to create a vision if you can go like implement

00:48:31.655 --> 00:48:34.455
that vision cool thumbs up like let's go do that.

00:48:35.189 --> 00:48:37.489
When that doesn't go your way, like, are you going to be destroyed?

00:48:37.609 --> 00:48:42.029
Is it going to impact your, like, your day, your weekend? You don't have to take an L in a good way.

00:48:42.109 --> 00:48:45.789
I'm not saying enjoy losing, but don't get, like, butthurt about it and ruin

00:48:45.789 --> 00:48:48.449
your life or your week about it. Don't stop training because of it.

00:48:49.409 --> 00:48:52.909
So, anyways, our job as coaches is to make them prepared for that.

00:48:53.029 --> 00:48:55.869
So, the last thing I'll say on the same point is I tell people,

00:48:55.949 --> 00:48:58.549
go watch matches. Go study rule sets.

00:48:58.789 --> 00:49:02.449
Go, like, understand how people win and lose in this game because it is a game.

00:49:03.089 --> 00:49:05.329
And I mentioned this earlier, but there are going to be people out there who

00:49:05.329 --> 00:49:06.729
just know how to play a game better than you.

00:49:07.769 --> 00:49:10.009
Or maybe you're that person. It doesn't mean you're bad at it.

00:49:10.069 --> 00:49:12.509
It just means that they played the game better than you. The other thing,

00:49:12.549 --> 00:49:14.329
too, is I'm like, what makes you think you're just going to,

00:49:14.529 --> 00:49:16.289
like, you've never done it before.

00:49:16.449 --> 00:49:18.749
You think you're just going to go out and be the best at it? Like, relax.

00:49:19.089 --> 00:49:22.269
Like, this is a skill. Learning how to compete is a skill.

00:49:22.409 --> 00:49:25.069
And so if you actually want to get good at that, and this is what I always,

00:49:25.369 --> 00:49:28.969
I'd say the outcome I have for most people, then again, I'm okay with the person

00:49:28.969 --> 00:49:30.669
to go out doing it once it's a bucket list thing.

00:49:30.929 --> 00:49:33.009
Hey, I competed in the Jiu-Jitsu tournament. and I don't ever want to do it again.

00:49:33.749 --> 00:49:35.809
But my main thing is when I go there with someone new and I'm like,

00:49:35.889 --> 00:49:37.209
do you want to do this a second time?

00:49:37.789 --> 00:49:40.389
And I'd like the answer to be yes. Yeah, oh, absolutely. They wouldn't have

00:49:40.389 --> 00:49:42.809
a positive experience. It usually is, too. A lot of times it is.

00:49:42.869 --> 00:49:44.249
A lot of times it is. It's addicting.

00:49:44.569 --> 00:49:47.229
Yeah, it can be. I mean, for me and you, it is. You know, we're addicted.

00:49:47.489 --> 00:49:51.089
But yeah, and I think we also understand the benefits of it.

00:49:51.149 --> 00:49:52.529
So that's why we stick to doing it.

00:49:53.629 --> 00:49:58.909
In any case, I don't want them to be like so bent out of shape because of a bad match.

00:49:58.949 --> 00:50:01.729
Yeah, and we're like, oh, this is fucking me up. we talked about

00:50:01.729 --> 00:50:04.929
it off air like i think recently um so

00:50:04.929 --> 00:50:07.749
we you know we'll we'll go back and forth just kind of checking

00:50:07.749 --> 00:50:10.469
in on how people's competitions went and like and i

00:50:10.469 --> 00:50:13.469
tell this to some of the younger guys at the gym like

00:50:13.469 --> 00:50:16.629
someone has to lose every match it doesn't

00:50:16.629 --> 00:50:21.989
matter like it's fine someone has to lose you can't both win so like it's okay

00:50:21.989 --> 00:50:26.869
to lose yeah um and like and again unless you like unless you're some like freak

00:50:26.869 --> 00:50:30.769
like athlete on the mat or like a freak athlete from like another sport like

00:50:30.769 --> 00:50:34.029
wrestling like why did you think you're gonna walk into the first thing ever be like just a stud,

00:50:34.757 --> 00:50:37.677
I want you to have that confidence. Don't get me wrong. But I also want you

00:50:37.677 --> 00:50:40.437
to temper your expectations. Part of that is kind of like, be a little self-aware.

00:50:40.557 --> 00:50:41.777
That's a good thing to do.

00:50:42.177 --> 00:50:45.957
Give yourself a break and let's go in and let's find some answers to questions

00:50:45.957 --> 00:50:47.757
that maybe you haven't asked. Yeah, exactly.

00:50:48.077 --> 00:50:51.717
Yeah, those learning that new thing. You don't have to feel good about losing.

00:50:53.157 --> 00:50:57.117
Who does? No one feels good about losing. But you should feel good about how

00:50:57.117 --> 00:51:00.517
you lost. Yeah. And that's like, go out there, give it your all.

00:51:01.097 --> 00:51:06.617
Do the thing that you were training to do and if at the end of the day you didn't

00:51:06.617 --> 00:51:11.097
lose or you didn't win, that's fine. You went out there, you played your game.

00:51:11.537 --> 00:51:14.917
Heck, it could be you went out there like, I want to get submissions today and

00:51:14.917 --> 00:51:18.197
you went out there and you were hiding for submissions but at the end of the

00:51:18.197 --> 00:51:20.117
day you didn't give the decision, cool.

00:51:20.617 --> 00:51:22.857
We're going to move on, we're going to do it again next time.

00:51:23.557 --> 00:51:26.017
Because there's different ways to go about that. You just want to win,

00:51:26.517 --> 00:51:28.337
then train to win. Don't train to submit, whatever.

00:51:29.437 --> 00:51:34.997
You got taken. At the end of the day, you know it's it is what it is prepare

00:51:34.997 --> 00:51:37.137
for different different matchups you know.

00:51:37.935 --> 00:51:42.595
If you want to get deep into competition, you want to prepare for those specific

00:51:42.595 --> 00:51:46.555
rule sets or a specific game plan like we talked about.

00:51:46.795 --> 00:51:48.795
And, you know, get out there, give it a shot.

00:51:49.315 --> 00:51:55.075
Or don't. Talk to your coaches. Talk to your coaches. Ask them if they think

00:51:55.075 --> 00:51:56.935
you're ready for a competition too.

00:51:57.075 --> 00:52:01.115
I feel like that's an odd. If it was us, we'd say go for it. But, you know, maybe.

00:52:01.735 --> 00:52:06.335
But, yeah, like definitely, you know. I don't think that question gets asked enough.

00:52:06.455 --> 00:52:10.355
No. Because like I said, I don't want someone to get like a butthurt about.

00:52:10.455 --> 00:52:13.295
Like maybe they weren't ready, which I could tell you, like for the most part,

00:52:13.375 --> 00:52:15.035
I know when someone is or is not ready.

00:52:15.195 --> 00:52:18.495
Like I don't know how much preparation you've done. They might even say,

00:52:18.655 --> 00:52:20.035
hey, you want to do a tournament? Cool.

00:52:20.335 --> 00:52:23.475
Let's start. That's cool. But let's set the right expectations going into it.

00:52:23.655 --> 00:52:26.635
You know, if we went in with like someone like they did a fight camp and they

00:52:26.635 --> 00:52:28.895
were very prepared, like, all right, that's a whole different story.

00:52:29.215 --> 00:52:32.355
And if someone just wants to go out on a limb and do it, it's not necessarily

00:52:32.355 --> 00:52:34.415
a bad thing. Just don't get better in shape if you lose.

00:52:34.615 --> 00:52:37.835
Yeah, absolutely. so um no i hope hope

00:52:37.835 --> 00:52:41.275
everyone got some yeah from that i know like i

00:52:41.275 --> 00:52:44.315
don't i actually learned some things i'm sure you know we always

00:52:44.315 --> 00:52:47.015
whenever we talk we both pick up something new so fuck it

00:52:47.015 --> 00:52:50.155
um you know so i think that's great get out

00:52:50.155 --> 00:52:53.475
there compete if you want prepare for it have a

00:52:53.475 --> 00:52:56.215
good time don't care if you lose hell don't

00:52:56.215 --> 00:52:58.955
have to feel good um so yeah thank you for

00:52:58.955 --> 00:53:02.275
listening to another episode of fighters drinking coffee as always

00:53:02.275 --> 00:53:05.375
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00:53:05.375 --> 00:53:08.495
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00:53:12.335 --> 00:53:18.275
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00:53:34.935 --> 00:53:35.735
So, bye.