How Gyms Grow: Memberships, Marketing & Community with Jon Klem (Episode 74)

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Welcome back to Fighters Drinking Coffee. On today's episode,

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we are joined by John Clem from Managed Memberships, and we are your guests,

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Scott Dance and Michael Sutherland.

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And with the 40 years of combined grappling experience, we hope to make your

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jujitsu training easier.

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So, John, how about you introduce yourself to the listeners?

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Yeah, thank you guys for having me on. Like you said, I'm John Clem, managed memberships.

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I run some software there. I am a jiu-jitsu hobbyist.

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I've been training for a little over four years now, as we'll probably get into the details there.

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I had to take a year off for an injury, but a little over four years.

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I am a blue belt, two-stripe blue belt, just real passionate about the jiu-jitsu

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martial arts community.

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And um yeah you know uh looking forward to sharing kind of my insight on you

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know being a beginner and and my journey in jiu-jitsu there,

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yeah man we're glad to have you on and um you'll be we've spoke before we talked

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a little bit before this um and i mean you you,

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you started a while ago right doing jiu-jitsu like how like how many years ago was that,

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well actually yeah you're right it's been more than four years it's funny how

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you know time flies especially you know having a son so yeah i started uh 2020,

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so it's like right at the tail end of covid so,

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you know we kind of the lockdowns and stuff were kind of easing up after having

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been you know uh more egregious there but yeah so right Right around the tail

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end of 2020 there is when I started.

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Yeah, and what got you into Jiu Jitsu?

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Yeah. So, uh, right at, you know, right in that COVID time, um,

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my wife had ended up telling me, you know, it, it came out that we were going to have a child.

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And I remember, you know, my father had passed away before the age of 50 and

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for a congestive heart failure.

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And at the time I was weighing in around 270 pounds and it's a very fluffy 270.

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I was, you know, getting winded walking up the stairs and all that,

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right? So definitely not a healthy 270.

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And I just knew that I didn't, you know, I didn't want to do that to my son,

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that I needed to be around. I needed to really start focusing on my longevity and that.

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And so I started on a fitness journey.

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And originally it was just sort of, you know, doing some cardio,

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lifting some weights. I'd read starting strength and started doing some barbell work and all that.

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And then just preparing to have our son, we ended up meeting with a financial advisor.

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And it was kind of funny out of nowhere, totally unprompted.

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Somehow we got on the conversation of jujitsu and that he was a jujitsu practitioner.

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And he even had like a video of him at a competition.

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He got this like a Soto Gallery on this guy. And at the time,

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obviously, I didn't know what an Soto Gallery was or anything,

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But I was very impressed because this was like a pretty nerdy dude.

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You know, pretty white collar, you know, wore glasses and that kind of stuff.

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He was a very relatable guy. And before that, I don't know, I kind of had this

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impression, you know, martial arts was more of, for lack of a better word,

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like a blue collar thing or like, you know, you should be an athlete and that kind of stuff.

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And this was oddly enough before sort of the Mikey Musumechi archetype,

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you know, was really popular, like the jujitsu nerd before that was like a common trope.

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And so anyways, he and I got to talk in and I'm like, wow, this sounds cool. Let me give that a shot.

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And thankfully he was sort of my friendly face that got me, you know,

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showing up and feeling comfortable and,

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kind of helped me through that, those original, like the, that initial shock

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to my system and that, you know, it's, it's awkward being.

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You know, showing up for your first class and depending on where you're going, right.

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They always have different warm-ups and stuff like that.

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And I just remember at our gym, they do about 15 minutes of warm-up,

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which may or may not be excessive.

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But we're doing a lot of the movements that are basic to jiu-jitsu,

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like jacare's and pendulums and all these other movements that are,

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for me anyways, were not intuitive at all.

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And uh it was nice having a friendly face and you know amongst the crowd it's

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like okay cool i don't necessarily feel like i'm an idiot making a fool out

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of myself right and uh slowly but surely it's like i got bit by the bug and after that you know i was.

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It became sort of uh you know i got that jujitsu obsession anyways right and

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that like almost everything health related was like in furtherance of my jujitsu journey, right?

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So, you know, watching what I eat and going on runs, getting my cardio up,

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even strength training and that kind of stuff in terms of injury prevention.

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And so that's sort of been the thing that's really kind of kept me going on it, right?

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Is it's this nice physical outlet for me, even though I wouldn't consider myself like an athletic guy,

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by any stretch of the imagination, it's nice that there's this sort of fun game

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that I get to play that really helps me focus on, you know, that mind-body connection

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and sort of, you know, going through the motion.

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Yeah, man. Um...

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Yeah, it's interesting, right, when you get to jiu-jitsu for the first time,

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that, like, I don't know, I was an athlete before, so it was a little different.

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Like, I was in grappling sports before jiu-jitsu, but I get to see it a lot,

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and I know Scott does, too, where you see, like, guys doing jiu-jitsu as, like,

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either their, maybe not their first, it might not always be their first athletic endeavor,

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but maybe their first one in a long time right like they might have done sports

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as a kid or something but um or you know it's their first time doing a martial

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art and yeah you get to see that like.

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I don't know if you just rediscover coordination um oh yeah yeah and i'm sure

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you so you're you're a father right so you've probably also seen this where

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like kids i think they're born knowing jujitsu,

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and knowing like how to grapple and move their bodies this way and so I always tell people that like,

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You know, kids, we all knew how to do this at one point and we have to relearn

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it because we just don't do it.

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Right. So, um, yeah, it's that, that whole, I guess it was a kinesthetic or,

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uh, awareness, right. Of where your body is. It is interesting.

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Cause I see it both. Cause my son actually, uh, he trains as well.

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I got him in, uh, when he turned three, uh, the, my home gym allows,

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you know, kids to train as early as three years old.

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And so, you know, he's been doing breakfalls and working on,

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you know, his samurai walks and

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stuff like that for almost three years now because he's about to turn six.

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And, yeah, I mean, it's interesting seeing it because, you know,

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at three, he had just been walking for not that long, right?

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And then he's trying to go through these motions. And he's, yeah,

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to your point, he was picking it up much quicker than I was.

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So it is interesting how that works out.

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Wow. Yeah. You hadn't, you had like years, you know, decades to forget how to move like that, right?

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Exactly. Yeah. Well, sitting at a desk and I, I don't know.

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It's interesting because like some of it, I always joke that like, I'm not,

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I'm obviously not mentally disabled and I'm not physically disabled,

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but somewhere where that connection happens, there's gotta be some kind of disability

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here because it's like, I'll notice like during the instructional,

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sometimes we were doing one, it was just a simple arm drag.

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And somehow I was like, okay, yeah, this makes sense.

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Awesome. I see what the instructor is doing. Now I'm going to go with my partner

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and I'm going to do this correctly.

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And I just kept screwing it up. And it's like, obviously, you know,

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arm drag is a very simple, fundamental movement.

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And, you know, I've gotten better at it now, but it's just like,

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for whatever reason, the concept really took me several reps before I was like,

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oh, okay, yeah, this is what I got to do.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah um that's actually pretty interesting though like the,

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the concept of like a mind body connection disability i don't know if you could

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uh i don't know if anyone's going to classify that though it might be tough to like convince john,

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we need our uh another guy named john who's been on the show i think psychology

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expert did you meet big john when you came by the gym so so john,

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who's Clem, the one on the show currently sorry there's another John,

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he's also been a guest so we have to like clarify this there's lots of Johns.

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He came by he was in town, so you came to town and you which I give you tons

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of credit for waking up and driving to our gym which was not where you were

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staying at 5.30 in the morning for a 5.30 a.m.

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Class so lots of credit there because it's not for the week And then was Big

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John there, though? Did you get to roll with him? Yeah, he absolutely was.

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Yeah. Now, I forget. There was a... I think, well, they're all sort of big.

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But I think there was a taller guy that kind of had like a permed style hair.

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I don't think that was John. John was the older gentleman.

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I believe if I'm remembering correctly, but like, I just remember,

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yeah, he was huge. He looked like he probably benched like 400 pounds or something.

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Pretty close. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. I believe he repped 365 on 30 on Thursday.

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I believe that's the official numbers. So you're very, you're probably correct.

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Nice. Yeah. You know, I say it's that industry insider information there,

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but yeah, that's a, it is funny. You mentioned that. Yeah. My wife thought I

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was an absolute psychopath. And, uh, because like anytime we're traveling,

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I like to go and visit gyms just to kind of see, you know, get different looks.

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And, uh, it, uh, it is always, uh, I don't know. I've, I've had good luck,

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you know what I mean? There's some horror stories out there about like bad gyms

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and stuff like that, but I feel like you guys were like super gracious hosts.

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You know, I felt safe the entire time I was there.

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I will admit I, I got in my feelings there a little bit when,

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And I forget his name, but I was listening to your other podcast and he had.

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He had just competed or had his first competition not too long ago.

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And I remember he was a white belt and I'm thinking, OK, but he was like a super

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athletic dude. And so, you know, and some of the exercises we were doing,

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I mean, he was smoking me.

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And then it was only later I found out that he was like he had some kind of like pro NFL career.

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Like he was, I forget what the terminology is, but like, I, again,

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there's this like pro athlete adjacent individual.

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Right. And it seemed like all the people I was working with were like that.

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Right. Like John, big John, who was a monster. And then I forget that other

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guy's name again, a taller dude, uh, had kind of like the permed,

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uh, you were with Perry. Yeah.

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Yeah. He was, I guess he had something as well. Like again, kind of pro athlete

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adjacent, but Perry guys were very shocked.

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And Perry also has this is also Perry's first sport ever uh he's just a weird

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menace of society where he's he's a surprising good yeah yeah but yeah uh Rock

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is the one you're talking about he was um,

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He was a D1 football player and then was, uh, he was an undrafted free agent

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picked up by the Broncos. So he's like a, he's a pro, he's a pro level athlete. Correct.

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They're all freaks of nature. That's what they all are. Giants that are athletic

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and strong and, you know, just, it's just not fair.

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Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So, you know, I had a, I had a lot of fun.

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It was great. it was great to see like the different looks like you know various

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gyms have their i feel like various gyms have their sort of go-to game that

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they're trying to teach or their curriculum and like uh you,

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what you guys were practicing was uh a little on the i don't know i hadn't seen

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it before like we had that one drill where i i guess it was like almost sort of double octopus.

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And then kind of fighting out to take the other person's back or,

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you know, that, and I remember that was the game, right.

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To try to get a dominant position and like at my gym and sort of some of the

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stuff that I do, I'm always trying to guard reposition. Like I'm not a dirty

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guard puller, but you know, if I'm trying to get, if I'm on the ground,

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I really like to try to get to close guard.

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And obviously that was not the wind condition. Right. So like,

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I don't know, it was funny, like trying to go against the grain,

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I guess, in terms of what was like my reflexive move in that scenario.

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Yeah, I think if I remember correctly, we were working on like scramble positions,

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Scott. So like we were doing all scramble drills. It was pretty fun.

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It was also like a wild day to show up and especially if you had to scramble

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against Big John because he was a wrestler.

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So yeah, that was that was actually a fun day. I was one of the days I was like,

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we're going to do something different today, guys. We're going to scramble.

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So yeah, we do a lot of stuff like that. And I know I try not to shoehorn in

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everyone into grappling the way that I do.

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Um, that way that everyone is a little bit different because most of them probably

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shouldn't grapple the way I do. I do some bullshit stuff sometimes,

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but it works for me. So whatever.

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Um, so like, uh, your, your business, like your job, right?

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It, it takes you all around, right?

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You get to go visit a bunch of different places um and i imagine that means

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you also get to train with some really cool people at some different gyms cool

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plays i know you touched on a little bit but like um,

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you know tell us about that what's some of the obviously outside of training

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with me what are some of the cool spots and like cool people you've gotten to meet because of it.

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Well, interestingly enough, when I'm cross-training and that kind of stuff,

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it's more often than not on family vacations.

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I don't do a whole lot of on-site with some of the MMA or BJJ gyms that use the software.

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However, I will say my original home gym is based in my hometown,

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which is Evansville, Indiana.

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And kind of through some of the marketing and outreach and stuff like that that

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I was doing for managed memberships, I got like a Google alert that there was

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a MMA gym starting in Henderson, Kentucky, and I started doing some outreach on them.

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And it's the head coach over there is Nate Maness. He was a UFC fighter, also BKFC.

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And, you know, we ended up talking and stuff like that. And so I started training

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there because they were so close. And that sort of became my home away from home.

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And like i even ended up moving my son's training over to there as well but.

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Um yeah i mean i don't i don't know it's uh it is interesting you know getting

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those different looks cross training that kind of stuff dealing with you know

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um seeing sort of the business side of it as well right and so like one of the

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things is like with the um.

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You know, with my software, it is just to sort of manage the memberships,

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obviously, and then kind of communication and all that.

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But particularly with Mayhem MMA, I've really been kind of working with those

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guys and helping them on the marketing side and seeing like the ins and outs

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of like, you know, membership retention,

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and, you know, driving signups and that kind of stuff, mostly out of

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like a selfish interest, not from the managed membership side,

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but because I really like that gym.

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Right. And I, I really want them to succeed. And so like, I even do some sponsorship

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with them and that kind of stuff.

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And, um, just really sort of kind of being in the trenches with them and,

00:16:38.506 --> 00:16:41.596
and helping them through some of their, you know, challenges.

00:16:41.596 --> 00:16:47.426
And thankfully that's, that's translated a lot to other gyms that may have questions.

00:16:47.426 --> 00:16:52.692
Right. Cause it's, um, you know, I feel like there's always sort of like a summer slump.

00:16:53.081 --> 00:16:55.976
I guess it depends on your market, it, but like, I, I definitely see it.

00:16:55.976 --> 00:16:58.876
It's a very common thing where like, for whatever reason, people are going on

00:16:58.876 --> 00:17:02.356
vacation and that kind of stuff. And are they going to cancel their membership

00:17:02.356 --> 00:17:06.722
or their cards go bad or, or, you know, you just have, you know, miscellaneous churn.

00:17:07.065 --> 00:17:08.859
And so kind of helping people through that.

00:17:09.393 --> 00:17:12.956
Um, but yeah, it's just been interesting seeing how, you know,

00:17:12.956 --> 00:17:16.086
the different gyms are ran and kind of, you know, the, the programs that they're

00:17:16.086 --> 00:17:18.762
training and, and all that.

00:17:23.122 --> 00:17:28.434
Yeah, I mean, I'm sure we've all, I mean, I know you've probably seen Summer Slump, Scott.

00:17:28.811 --> 00:17:34.114
Yeah, I think people go on vacation, like you said, and people just want to

00:17:34.114 --> 00:17:35.684
go outside and do other things.

00:17:35.684 --> 00:17:41.434
You get like the discipline, hardcore students who, you know,

00:17:42.154 --> 00:17:44.646
any academy has that. It's probably like an 80-20 thing.

00:17:45.122 --> 00:17:51.357
Like 20% of the membership is just gonna go to all the classes which is great

00:17:51.763 --> 00:17:54.994
and that keeps the keeps the show going but.

00:17:57.086 --> 00:18:02.504
Whatever the other portion is just wants to go outside and do summer stuff so

00:18:02.504 --> 00:18:05.954
like you said it's pretty normal and,

00:18:07.454 --> 00:18:11.262
generally you get like a little back to school thing for parents and,

00:18:12.394 --> 00:18:16.794
younger kids when they're done with the summer travel and all that and like

00:18:16.794 --> 00:18:19.093
it sounds I mean I don't have kids you guys both have kids but,

00:18:19.882 --> 00:18:24.274
it seems also like that's when people are going to camps and stuff and there's

00:18:24.274 --> 00:18:26.465
like a million activities that,

00:18:26.964 --> 00:18:30.204
parents are throwing their kids into that gets them running around doing different

00:18:30.204 --> 00:18:33.464
things and so maybe they put depending on the academy right if the academy has

00:18:33.464 --> 00:18:36.652
a summer camp that that would be different but if the,

00:18:37.406 --> 00:18:40.558
kids going off to baseball camp or whatever, swimming or something,

00:18:41.414 --> 00:18:46.214
they might put jiu-jitsu or whatever the kids' program is on hold until they

00:18:46.214 --> 00:18:48.070
get back to the regular routine.

00:18:48.488 --> 00:18:51.734
And then interestingly enough, I feel like, kind of like, weirdly enough,

00:18:51.734 --> 00:18:54.324
adults kind of come back around back to school time too. Maybe after summers,

00:18:54.324 --> 00:18:57.864
when they're done drinking, going to happy hours, and going on vacation,

00:18:57.864 --> 00:19:02.763
siesting all the time, like, they want to get back to the rhythm as the winter comes around.

00:19:03.694 --> 00:19:05.682
But the seasonality thing, it's a real thing.

00:19:07.772 --> 00:19:10.481
Yeah, I mean, I know this marketplace, I don't know other marketplaces,

00:19:10.481 --> 00:19:13.641
but I feel like that's probably a consistent trend wherever you go.

00:19:14.570 --> 00:19:19.104
Yeah, I mean, we just hit, I think, like, just this past week, we hit the slump.

00:19:19.725 --> 00:19:23.801
I think maybe the last week or two, where, like, normally we'll have,

00:19:23.801 --> 00:19:25.681
like, a bunch of people in the mornings.

00:19:25.681 --> 00:19:28.961
And, like, they just now are starting to hit that, like, I think it's,

00:19:28.961 --> 00:19:30.641
like, the last-minute vacations.

00:19:30.641 --> 00:19:34.221
Because most of the guys that train with me in the morning are parents.

00:19:34.221 --> 00:19:37.901
Parents so i think they're like in that like oh no we have like two weeks left

00:19:37.901 --> 00:19:41.571
before school we need to hit those vacations now yeah well it's like it's august

00:19:41.571 --> 00:19:42.741
1st today you know like it's

00:19:43.121 --> 00:19:46.011
it i don't i get i don't have kids but you guys correct me if i'm wrong i feel

00:19:46.011 --> 00:19:49.441
like end of august early september that's when back to school does kick in so

00:19:49.761 --> 00:19:54.011
yeah it's like mid it depends on the county but like it's like mid august early

00:19:54.011 --> 00:19:55.929
september so if people are gonna go out and like,

00:19:56.841 --> 00:20:00.181
enjoy one last trip to the beach or whatever like that now's the time to do

00:20:00.181 --> 00:20:04.821
it yeah i guess also you have that like little bit of a break before um.

00:20:07.150 --> 00:20:11.911
After the holidays before the next holiday right like this end of july pre so

00:20:11.911 --> 00:20:13.501
like especially around here like

00:20:13.501 --> 00:20:17.521
you're going to the beach the beaches are insane on holiday weekends so,

00:20:18.001 --> 00:20:20.501
this is kind of your time like all right there's no holiday we can like sneak

00:20:20.501 --> 00:20:24.331
away like it's a little bit cheaper and not as busy it's like an art and a science

00:20:24.331 --> 00:20:28.941
to actually pick in the vacation you're saying yeah yeah for sure yeah well

00:20:28.941 --> 00:20:29.941
i mean I guess, I don't know.

00:20:30.521 --> 00:20:34.369
John, what do you think the better academies do to manage those downswings?

00:20:35.518 --> 00:20:39.596
Well, I think the idea is that, uh, I don't know, it's this common sales trope

00:20:39.596 --> 00:20:41.736
of like pipeline solves all problems.

00:20:41.736 --> 00:20:45.796
Right. And I, I feel like almost any business, the problem is,

00:20:45.796 --> 00:20:49.486
uh, they don't have systems in place. And so they're, you know,

00:20:49.486 --> 00:20:52.207
they see the number go up and they're like, okay, cool.

00:20:52.747 --> 00:20:57.916
And it may be because of, you know, staffing issues or, you know,

00:20:57.916 --> 00:21:02.056
obviously poor software or for whatever reason, number goes up,

00:21:02.056 --> 00:21:03.649
they're happy. They're not thinking about it.

00:21:03.904 --> 00:21:08.536
Number goes down and then they're like oh my what's happening here we should

00:21:08.536 --> 00:21:11.866
have been doing some stuff you know to keep that number up and i just think

00:21:11.866 --> 00:21:13.889
that's it that's part of the problem is that

00:21:14.295 --> 00:21:17.386
like there's there's a certain degree of seasonality that you're never going

00:21:17.386 --> 00:21:21.993
to get away with or away from you know you just see it all the time and that's like across,

00:21:22.521 --> 00:21:26.216
industry because like you know there's a lot of gun ranges and stuff that use

00:21:26.216 --> 00:21:28.506
managed membership as well and they'll

00:21:28.506 --> 00:21:32.846
have various classes on like either self-defense or like you know um,

00:21:33.606 --> 00:21:36.786
i don't know just miscellaneous like gun related stuff it's not even like martial

00:21:36.786 --> 00:21:42.256
arts in that in the typical but um just across the board right to your point

00:21:42.256 --> 00:21:45.136
you know people are busy or they're doing other things so they're outside so

00:21:45.136 --> 00:21:47.846
maybe they're not booking these classes but i think.

00:21:48.806 --> 00:21:52.106
A big problem with that is if you don't have a system in place that like you're

00:21:52.106 --> 00:21:56.426
constantly you know have your marketing machine running and adding people into

00:21:56.426 --> 00:22:00.346
the funnel, you're going to have those kind of slumps that you're going to see

00:22:00.346 --> 00:22:01.996
are the hockey sticks or whatever.

00:22:01.996 --> 00:22:04.936
Right. And it's always like, oh, no, we're freaking out. Now we're going to

00:22:04.936 --> 00:22:09.737
try to do a bunch of ads and, you know, sending out mailers and all these other things.

00:22:10.073 --> 00:22:13.296
And then you get a huge drive and you see a peak and then they're too busy to

00:22:13.296 --> 00:22:15.746
sort of deal with the onboarding people.

00:22:15.746 --> 00:22:20.406
And then it goes back down again. Right. So I just think that lack of consistent

00:22:20.406 --> 00:22:25.146
focus on pipeline, for lack of a better word, is a big part of it.

00:22:25.146 --> 00:22:27.626
But some of it, you're just never, you know, you're gonna see.

00:22:27.800 --> 00:22:31.498
Yeah, this is the way it is, right? So with the business cycle of this world,

00:22:31.934 --> 00:22:34.606
do you feel like some of those guys have like staffing issues?

00:22:34.606 --> 00:22:37.175
Like they have to, they're.

00:22:38.616 --> 00:22:42.806
Undermanned to handle the, because you had talked about a couple things,

00:22:42.806 --> 00:22:46.562
like you said, like sometimes folks will respond to,

00:22:47.415 --> 00:22:51.236
the trend, maybe they're kind of behind the eight ball, instead of like leaning

00:22:51.236 --> 00:22:54.616
into it and being ahead of it, they're responding to the downswing,

00:22:54.616 --> 00:22:57.346
and then they pump some money into marketing, they do the flyers,

00:22:57.346 --> 00:22:58.282
they do the whatever, and then,

00:22:58.938 --> 00:23:05.510
it works, and they get a big uptick, but like you said, they can't handle that influx of business.

00:23:06.656 --> 00:23:10.786
It makes me think of staffing, perhaps, like they're just trying to manage too

00:23:10.786 --> 00:23:12.534
many balls up in the air, if that makes sense.

00:23:13.062 --> 00:23:17.590
No, absolutely. Yeah. And it can depend. Yeah. I think staffing could potentially be one of them.

00:23:18.002 --> 00:23:22.536
Some of it is, you know, again, I'm biased here, but software, right?

00:23:22.956 --> 00:23:25.646
Depending on how you're automating things or how you're looking at it,

00:23:25.948 --> 00:23:30.174
if you're not, regardless of what software you're using or systems,

00:23:30.656 --> 00:23:35.356
A, I think making the onboarding of members more streamlined, right?

00:23:35.356 --> 00:23:39.406
Like if you're using old paper waivers and that kind of stuff or managing that,

00:23:39.406 --> 00:23:42.364
or if there's, if it's like, I've seen some gyms where

00:23:42.753 --> 00:23:47.716
they'll do like an ACH form and then they, they store that in an office somewhere

00:23:47.716 --> 00:23:51.986
and like they have to get a template from their bank and, and manually run stuff.

00:23:51.986 --> 00:23:54.236
And it's like this huge waste of time.

00:23:54.796 --> 00:23:57.696
I think that's a big part of it. I think too, just like insight though,

00:23:57.696 --> 00:24:01.616
like if you're not, because the problem is right and i've talked about this

00:24:01.616 --> 00:24:04.255
on on other appearances and stuff it's like the uh.

00:24:04.921 --> 00:24:10.117
To be a successful gym owner, I feel like you have to be passionate about your martial art, right?

00:24:10.117 --> 00:24:13.287
And you have to, to get to that point where you're capable of teaching people,

00:24:13.287 --> 00:24:17.007
I think it requires you to stick a lot of your skill points,

00:24:17.007 --> 00:24:20.560
you know, like a video game into your craft.

00:24:21.071 --> 00:24:25.707
And doing that allows you to be successful because you are this individual who

00:24:25.707 --> 00:24:30.259
has built up this, you know, acumen of, Hey, I know how to do martial arts.

00:24:30.648 --> 00:24:35.167
But I think the potential downside of that is a lot of these gym owners have

00:24:35.167 --> 00:24:39.367
not spent a whole lot of time building up their business acumen.

00:24:39.768 --> 00:24:47.127
And some of them too, they almost feel dirty in terms of trying to do the sales and the marketing.

00:24:47.807 --> 00:24:51.837
And uh i don't know like like with mayhem i'm talking with them and they've

00:24:51.837 --> 00:24:55.977
got this promotion they're doing this thing and they absolutely hate the idea

00:24:55.977 --> 00:24:59.597
of like calling people and following up right for whatever reason they think

00:24:59.597 --> 00:25:01.107
it feels like cold calling or,

00:25:01.647 --> 00:25:05.007
you know they have these various like hang-ups about trying to do like automatic

00:25:05.007 --> 00:25:12.775
uh text cadences to keep people you know engaged and i think some of it is like i always fall back to,

00:25:13.228 --> 00:25:17.895
uh pen jillette who you know is a very famous atheist.

00:25:18.255 --> 00:25:22.357
And someone had asked him, you know, somehow they got on the topic of religion

00:25:22.357 --> 00:25:24.137
and they had asked him about evangelicals.

00:25:24.137 --> 00:25:28.657
And like his, his statement was, you know, if this person believes that I'm

00:25:28.657 --> 00:25:31.837
going to go to hell, if I don't, you know, repent and accept Jesus,

00:25:32.116 --> 00:25:38.097
how much do they have to hate me to not try to convince me or tell me at least about that?

00:25:38.097 --> 00:25:41.107
Right. And so, and this guy is a guy who doesn't agree with that,

00:25:41.107 --> 00:25:45.257
you know, and, and I just fall back to that, it's like, you know, you have.

00:25:45.850 --> 00:25:49.472
As a business owner, as a gym owner, you have a duty almost,

00:25:49.472 --> 00:25:54.902
right, to your family, especially like if this is your sole way of paying your bills, right?

00:25:54.902 --> 00:25:58.252
You have a duty to your family and yourself to try to drum up business,

00:25:58.252 --> 00:25:59.372
to keep the business afloat.

00:25:59.372 --> 00:26:02.110
But more importantly, like this gym community that you've built,

00:26:02.516 --> 00:26:06.162
if, you know, if you're not properly marketing and doing the sales,

00:26:06.162 --> 00:26:10.557
like it's you're you're trying to, you know, A, keep the business afloat.

00:26:10.934 --> 00:26:13.742
But then B, it's like just my own experience, right?

00:26:13.742 --> 00:26:20.222
Like that, that random encounter I had with this financial advisor has changed

00:26:20.222 --> 00:26:21.382
the trajectory in my life.

00:26:21.382 --> 00:26:24.312
And it's like, yeah, I'm not like a professional jujitsu guy or anything like that.

00:26:24.312 --> 00:26:28.972
But if I had never discovered Brazilian jujitsu and that gym that I attend,

00:26:29.312 --> 00:26:32.572
like my life would be less colorful, right?

00:26:32.572 --> 00:26:36.542
Or less, I don't know. Like, I definitely feel like he did me a great service

00:26:36.542 --> 00:26:40.202
by just pitching this, right? And so I feel like a lot of gym owners need to

00:26:40.202 --> 00:26:44.032
think of themselves more as like evangelists to their craft, right?

00:26:44.372 --> 00:26:48.412
And to get themselves in that sort of sales and marketing mindset,

00:26:48.412 --> 00:26:51.772
because it is, you know, not to sound culty about it, but it is,

00:26:51.772 --> 00:26:55.092
it's like, this is something that, you know, more and more people need to,

00:26:56.072 --> 00:27:00.397
be aware of and recognize that this is a welcoming environment and,

00:27:00.728 --> 00:27:03.781
you know, a safe place to train and all that. Right.

00:27:04.245 --> 00:27:08.379
So it's like when you're saying there might be some cultural blockage for some.

00:27:10.044 --> 00:27:13.340
We'll call them, I mean, they're business owners, but they think of themselves

00:27:13.340 --> 00:27:17.650
perhaps like martial artists primarily, and then the business is kind of there,

00:27:17.650 --> 00:27:20.642
but what you're saying is, and what I'm hearing is if they,

00:27:21.397 --> 00:27:24.760
maybe they seem to remember the mission and what they're doing is a good thing,

00:27:24.760 --> 00:27:26.970
so selling it's not a bad thing at all.

00:27:26.970 --> 00:27:30.120
It's like, I mean, like you said, there's a practical, like you obviously,

00:27:30.120 --> 00:27:32.480
you have, I mean, if you're not going to do that, it's not going to work.

00:27:32.480 --> 00:27:36.830
You won't be coaching in six months if you don't continue to enroll people,

00:27:36.830 --> 00:27:39.543
so there's the obvious necessity of it.

00:27:40.770 --> 00:27:43.520
But it's a good thing. It's like you believe in what you're doing and know that

00:27:43.520 --> 00:27:44.440
you're doing a good thing.

00:27:44.440 --> 00:27:51.350
You know, that same individuals trusting and proud of their craft as they should

00:27:51.350 --> 00:27:55.360
be, like you said, because ultimately that is probably like the foundation of

00:27:55.360 --> 00:27:57.968
the home is their ability to deliver a good service.

00:27:59.141 --> 00:28:01.630
But then you got to be able to tell people to evangelize, as you said,

00:28:02.110 --> 00:28:05.631
to ensure that the business continues.

00:28:05.741 --> 00:28:11.633
Well, and I think there might be, like, in jiu-jitsu,

00:28:12.450 --> 00:28:15.580
this might cross, this probably does cross over into other martial arts,

00:28:15.580 --> 00:28:22.215
too, where, like, being humble is so, like, I don't know, we're told to be humble, and so, like,

00:28:23.068 --> 00:28:24.647
people are nervous about,

00:28:25.512 --> 00:28:29.340
or skeptical of, like, of themselves, not of other people, but,

00:28:29.340 --> 00:28:33.128
like, skeptical of, like, selling themselves, and...

00:28:34.312 --> 00:28:36.920
I don't know. I just feel like it's, they're creating their own barrier.

00:28:36.920 --> 00:28:38.010
We're like, no, I have to be humble.

00:28:38.010 --> 00:28:42.230
I can't talk about how, about myself and like try to tell people that I'm good at this.

00:28:42.230 --> 00:28:46.410
And like, they like create that own like mental block to where they don't feel

00:28:46.410 --> 00:28:47.680
like they can't sell themselves.

00:28:47.680 --> 00:28:50.694
But like, especially in today's day and age, you kind of have to,

00:28:50.804 --> 00:28:52.836
but I guess you could also say that like,

00:28:53.440 --> 00:28:57.860
if you're uncomfortable, like pumping yourself up and selling yourself.

00:28:58.540 --> 00:29:05.050
That even just pushing the sport, like pushing jujitsu out to people and like

00:29:05.050 --> 00:29:09.525
selling jujitsu, and maybe that's a way to break that mental barrier down,

00:29:09.688 --> 00:29:11.627
right? I don't know, just a thought, but.

00:29:12.207 --> 00:29:17.180
Well, I think I read something and it was like the, there was some analogy,

00:29:17.180 --> 00:29:21.320
like they actually did whatever brain imaging scans, right?

00:29:21.320 --> 00:29:28.440
And it was like the concept of rejection, you know, lit off something that was

00:29:28.440 --> 00:29:30.480
very similar to like pain receptors, right?

00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:35.140
And the idea is that I just think it's a human trope in general that this whole

00:29:35.140 --> 00:29:39.220
fear of rejection, it all kind of circles back to the same thing.

00:29:39.220 --> 00:29:45.033
And I mean, my original jujitsu journey, right, is like getting people to show up.

00:29:45.486 --> 00:29:48.680
I think it's all related. Getting people to show up is like there's nervousness

00:29:48.680 --> 00:29:49.970
of like, hey, I'm going to look stupid.

00:29:49.970 --> 00:29:54.710
But same thing that the coach or the people trying to generate,

00:29:54.861 --> 00:30:00.020
you know, traffic or generate business, they don't necessarily want to interrupt individuals, right?

00:30:00.020 --> 00:30:04.670
And like, hey, you know, I don't want to send a text message asking somebody about this.

00:30:04.670 --> 00:30:07.460
Or I don't want to pick up the phone and call some of these people and kind

00:30:07.460 --> 00:30:11.500
of see what's up and get a feel for, you know, A, what their experience was,

00:30:11.500 --> 00:30:12.710
if there's anything I can improve.

00:30:12.710 --> 00:30:16.100
Or B, you know, try to communicate with them and say like, hey,

00:30:16.100 --> 00:30:19.755
you know, are you interested in, you know, joining the gym here? We got these packages.

00:30:20.185 --> 00:30:23.150
And it's just interesting when you think about it because I just feel like there's

00:30:23.150 --> 00:30:24.986
some blockages on both sides.

00:30:25.491 --> 00:30:28.434
And the thing is, it's like once you hit a certain momentum.

00:30:29.043 --> 00:30:31.665
You can probably get away with the more passive attempts, right?

00:30:31.665 --> 00:30:35.065
Which is like, you know, your Facebook and meta ads and, you know,

00:30:35.465 --> 00:30:38.835
various other, you know, you can hire a third party marketing agency maybe and

00:30:38.835 --> 00:30:40.905
do all that stuff once you reach a certain part.

00:30:40.905 --> 00:30:45.845
But unfortunately for a lot of these, you know, MMA gyms and BJJ gyms and that

00:30:45.845 --> 00:30:50.895
kind of stuff, it's very difficult to get to that spot unless you're going to

00:30:50.895 --> 00:30:53.075
go with these more interrupting patterns.

00:30:53.075 --> 00:30:57.317
And I don't know, I think there's some some weird sort of symmetry there,

00:30:57.602 --> 00:31:03.945
right, where it's the same psychology behind these gym owners not feeling comfortable,

00:31:04.565 --> 00:31:09.009
getting deep into the sales and promotional aspect is the exact same psychology

00:31:09.305 --> 00:31:12.065
that is preventing a lot of people who would otherwise be,

00:31:12.685 --> 00:31:16.465
you know, very enriched by participating in a martial art from,

00:31:16.805 --> 00:31:19.777
you know, showing up and trying a few classes.

00:31:20.241 --> 00:31:24.265
Do you generally, John, just out of curiosity, do you notice that pattern of,

00:31:25.085 --> 00:31:29.007
some of the, we'll call it like the blockages, or like the cultural resistance to.

00:31:30.070 --> 00:31:35.632
Um some business operations or sales call it what you want um is it usually

00:31:36.032 --> 00:31:38.609
newer academy owners that are having this,

00:31:39.654 --> 00:31:42.572
this like yeah existential crisis or is it,

00:31:43.112 --> 00:31:46.722
all across the board you think well i guess it really yeah i would say it really

00:31:46.722 --> 00:31:52.832
depends it's it's pretty wide spectrum yeah i honestly the newer academy owners

00:31:52.832 --> 00:31:56.032
are probably going to be the most susceptible to it but But especially like

00:31:56.032 --> 00:31:58.092
in my area, you'll see a lot of

00:31:58.532 --> 00:32:01.772
gym owners who, you know, maybe they're just barely,

00:32:02.392 --> 00:32:06.412
you know, covering their lease for their commercial property and that kind of stuff.

00:32:06.412 --> 00:32:10.152
But like, they don't necessarily want to change anything because they've just

00:32:10.152 --> 00:32:13.442
been doing it that way for so long and they've gotten comfortable with that,

00:32:13.442 --> 00:32:18.312
you know, and there's something to be said about for some of these individuals, either A, it's,

00:32:19.220 --> 00:32:23.402
a part-time endeavor or B, It's sort of, for lack of a better word,

00:32:23.402 --> 00:32:24.922
like a lifestyle business, right?

00:32:24.922 --> 00:32:27.912
Where they don't necessarily care too much about growing it.

00:32:27.912 --> 00:32:30.362
They're just like, well, we're just going to, you know, collect.

00:32:30.362 --> 00:32:32.118
We've got a nice number of members and this is that.

00:32:32.420 --> 00:32:36.532
But, you know, I think that in and of itself is fairly dangerous because,

00:32:36.532 --> 00:32:40.392
you know, if you're not, again, if you're not trying to fill a pipeline or kind

00:32:40.392 --> 00:32:43.154
of expand things, you have that existential risk.

00:32:44.448 --> 00:32:47.716
Yeah. I mean, going into business with a...

00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:52.023
That casual attitude is, is going to be tough.

00:32:52.272 --> 00:32:56.224
Um, if depending on the circumstances, like maybe you have a friend who's going

00:32:56.224 --> 00:33:00.654
to give you like a space for so cheap or your rent's so low that it's like,

00:33:00.654 --> 00:33:03.944
like you said, it's like, you're like, yeah, it's, we kind of got ourselves set up pretty good here.

00:33:03.944 --> 00:33:06.904
I'm making a couple thousand bucks a month. I'm barely paying any money.

00:33:06.904 --> 00:33:10.191
And like, I'm all, I'm all good. Right. Those are rare. Right.

00:33:10.922 --> 00:33:15.354
Um, in, in my opinion, yeah, like it's, you know, Business is tough,

00:33:15.354 --> 00:33:19.096
and you kind of have to go all in.

00:33:20.547 --> 00:33:24.784
You're not rewarded for the indecision of how to apply yourself.

00:33:25.714 --> 00:33:34.073
Real quick, guys. If you're enjoying the show, pop over to our website, www.fdcpodcast.com.

00:33:34.322 --> 00:33:38.171
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00:33:38.560 --> 00:33:43.123
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00:33:56.915 --> 00:34:02.748
How to apply yourself in it i've seen it like i've i've seen some folks um,

00:34:04.066 --> 00:34:12.904
make that mistake of being a little too loose and like you i have also seen

00:34:12.904 --> 00:34:16.756
poorer performance generally from that demo yeah.

00:34:18.886 --> 00:34:22.991
Yeah, it's interesting. I feel like, you know, there's a lot of.

00:34:24.271 --> 00:34:29.791
There are a lot of, I don't know, it rhymes between like the skills necessary

00:34:29.791 --> 00:34:33.431
to be good at martial arts and the skills necessary to be good at business.

00:34:33.431 --> 00:34:37.799
Like I find myself constantly thinking about, you know, the parallels between the two.

00:34:38.246 --> 00:34:41.971
And like a lot of it is like being comfortable in an uncomfortable position,

00:34:41.971 --> 00:34:45.751
right? Like just focusing on what is the next thing that I need to do.

00:34:46.391 --> 00:34:49.641
And so like even me I'm seeing it like I'm not necessarily running a gym I am

00:34:49.641 --> 00:34:53.524
helping some gym owners run their gyms but like in growing managed memberships like I will,

00:34:54.099 --> 00:34:58.291
you know I am you know on the spectrum a little bit right obviously as a software

00:34:58.291 --> 00:35:03.001
guy and and kind of nerdy and socially awkward but you know I'm I'm sitting

00:35:03.001 --> 00:35:06.091
here and you know forcing myself or bullying myself to uh,

00:35:06.804 --> 00:35:10.211
you know cold call you know various places try to see what they're you know

00:35:10.211 --> 00:35:14.011
even even if I can't convince them to sell I'm at least getting market research

00:35:14.011 --> 00:35:16.655
and like okay what are they using what's working? What's happening here?

00:35:17.044 --> 00:35:21.011
Um, you know, and even like, uh, obviously, you know, I hear podcasts to parents

00:35:21.011 --> 00:35:21.921
and that kind of stuff, right?

00:35:21.921 --> 00:35:26.011
Like getting out of my shell and getting, just focusing on, listen,

00:35:26.011 --> 00:35:29.901
you know, these, whatever negative emotions may be associated, right.

00:35:29.901 --> 00:35:33.502
With, uh, the fear of unknown or the fear of rejection or whatever,

00:35:34.311 --> 00:35:39.731
realizing that those are counterproductive, uh, inputs and just,

00:35:39.731 --> 00:35:44.401
you know, focusing again on what is the next move that I should be doing or

00:35:44.401 --> 00:35:47.630
what's the next action I should be taking that's going to move the ball forward?

00:35:48.019 --> 00:35:50.917
No, it's a really good analogy to your point. And I think like.

00:35:52.867 --> 00:35:59.181
In my opinion, having been in and currently in the martial arts business owner

00:35:59.181 --> 00:36:02.731
position, I think that's a really apt way to describe it.

00:36:03.558 --> 00:36:06.861
Like I said a minute ago, I think you have no choice but to go all in.

00:36:06.861 --> 00:36:10.060
And like you said, just day in, day out, you have to embrace the...

00:36:10.756 --> 00:36:14.361
Challenge of accepting the responsibilities that you've chosen,

00:36:14.675 --> 00:36:18.472
which are all of the business duties. It's not just selling,

00:36:18.472 --> 00:36:21.112
but I, you know, my background is sales. You're talking to a guy you used to

00:36:21.112 --> 00:36:23.098
have to cold, I cold cold for years.

00:36:23.678 --> 00:36:26.792
Um, it's not my preferred way to sell things, but I, you know,

00:36:26.792 --> 00:36:30.082
when I, back in the day I used to do it and I kind of tricked myself because

00:36:30.082 --> 00:36:33.882
it's, it's a bit of a, I say this with love to people cold calling,

00:36:33.882 --> 00:36:35.912
it's kind of a miserable It's an incredible task.

00:36:35.912 --> 00:36:40.640
But it can be fun too if you get to a point, I just decided to,

00:36:41.242 --> 00:36:44.356
many years ago, I was like, this is my job, I have to cold call.

00:36:45.422 --> 00:36:48.942
I'm just gonna try to get good at it. I mean, to your point,

00:36:48.942 --> 00:36:55.581
if you just accept, you're just most likely going to get rejected most of the time.

00:36:56.922 --> 00:37:00.816
Any outcome better than a complete and utter rejection or just completely being

00:37:00.816 --> 00:37:07.056
ignored, left on read or whatever, just hung up on, is automatically better than that.

00:37:07.056 --> 00:37:10.816
I remember just convincing myself, let's see if I can keep someone on the phone

00:37:10.816 --> 00:37:16.156
for a little bit and ask them some questions. I really got into different ways

00:37:16.156 --> 00:37:21.367
to, how to introduce myself, what questions I would ask people just to provoke a conversation.

00:37:21.675 --> 00:37:24.676
I had fun with it is what I'm saying. It kind of got to a point where I was

00:37:24.676 --> 00:37:26.466
just like, well, let's just see what we can get out of this.

00:37:26.466 --> 00:37:33.156
And then there is the, the, the rush of taking someone who wasn't like a hard,

00:37:33.156 --> 00:37:35.046
no, get the fuck off the phone, Scott.

00:37:35.046 --> 00:37:37.526
Like, that's pretty clear, right? Like, but like someone's like,

00:37:37.526 --> 00:37:38.336
I don't know if I'm interested in you.

00:37:38.336 --> 00:37:41.606
Like, all right, cool. Like, well, if I may ask, like, what are some of the,

00:37:41.606 --> 00:37:42.796
is it, you know, is it a money thing?

00:37:42.796 --> 00:37:45.656
Is it this? Like the conversation kept going. Like you would,

00:37:45.656 --> 00:37:48.186
you would get to where like people talk long enough, they'll,

00:37:48.186 --> 00:37:51.459
they'll tell you why they're saying no. And if you can handle it pretty well,

00:37:51.912 --> 00:37:53.967
um, you still may get a no and you're like, Hey, no problem.

00:37:55.066 --> 00:37:58.646
I had little tactics for when would be a good time for me to check back in with you.

00:37:59.106 --> 00:38:03.893
I would not accept no in its entirety unless it was just the absolute answer.

00:38:04.247 --> 00:38:07.426
But just tastefully, because you still have to be a human being.

00:38:07.926 --> 00:38:12.136
I don't want to be a psychopath who just is like, I'm not going to get off the

00:38:12.136 --> 00:38:13.776
phone until you say yes, like one of those.

00:38:13.776 --> 00:38:20.966
But find a way to just, in a human but tenacious way, keep asking until you

00:38:20.966 --> 00:38:22.566
can get something out of the conversation.

00:38:22.566 --> 00:38:26.016
And if the answer is no, it's just no, but there was a, there was like an art to it.

00:38:26.016 --> 00:38:28.896
And like, I remember kind of getting decent at it and I would,

00:38:28.896 --> 00:38:33.246
I had rather enjoyed, um, actually I tell you the stories that I,

00:38:33.246 --> 00:38:36.106
that stuck with me the most from like being in sales were not like the really

00:38:36.106 --> 00:38:38.201
easy wins where you made a bunch of money, even though those are great.

00:38:38.462 --> 00:38:40.006
They don't really like when it feels easy.

00:38:40.426 --> 00:38:44.386
I mean, that's the ultimate, like, look, as a business guy, like you want easy, you want like scalable.

00:38:44.826 --> 00:38:48.346
You said it earlier, you want like systems and things that produce like sales

00:38:48.346 --> 00:38:51.766
that that's indicative of like a good product and a good system and a good business

00:38:51.766 --> 00:38:56.130
for it to be like a seamless process. But there's like a battlefield, too, of...

00:38:56.920 --> 00:39:02.486
Grappling with you know uh with the message and figuring out what what resonates

00:39:02.486 --> 00:39:04.664
and like i said what i'm trying to get across is like i i,

00:39:05.140 --> 00:39:08.026
i would like print out email threads that i'd have with people who like where

00:39:08.026 --> 00:39:11.326
i like tangoed them into like a yes eventually and then like later on a sale

00:39:11.326 --> 00:39:14.126
even just like tango with them just to have the sales conversation i used to

00:39:14.126 --> 00:39:16.344
just book sales calls before i even got into sales,

00:39:16.901 --> 00:39:19.306
um way back in the day but like those always stuck with me because i was kind

00:39:19.306 --> 00:39:22.329
of like proud of myself it's like all right cool like i didn't give up um,

00:39:22.938 --> 00:39:26.746
found a way to just keep the person like just ask more questions like decent

00:39:26.746 --> 00:39:30.406
questions just to continue talking to figure out like what's like what's the

00:39:30.406 --> 00:39:31.745
oblique like what's the real.

00:39:32.609 --> 00:39:37.236
Challenge here because that was forever ago in like a b2b environment where

00:39:37.236 --> 00:39:40.166
like i would ask myself this is like to what you were saying a minute ago earlier

00:39:40.166 --> 00:39:41.468
where it's like at its core,

00:39:42.406 --> 00:39:45.526
um cold calling and you know we're not like cold calling random phone numbers

00:39:45.526 --> 00:39:51.306
from like a the white pages in you know the just the raw list of human beings

00:39:51.306 --> 00:39:54.151
in martial arts right like usually you might be cold calling someone who like,

00:39:54.928 --> 00:39:57.556
it's not even a cold call in my opinion like they went to your website so you

00:39:57.556 --> 00:40:01.006
have their information like that's that's not a cold call they fill out a form

00:40:01.426 --> 00:40:05.401
by the way no i agree that is not a cold call just as a guy used to cold call

00:40:05.790 --> 00:40:09.616
um that's a warmer call it doesn't mean it's an immediate sale but like you're

00:40:09.616 --> 00:40:13.786
talking to someone who has indicated interest in this so back to what you're

00:40:13.786 --> 00:40:16.106
saying earlier it's like if you believe in what you're doing,

00:40:16.106 --> 00:40:18.406
you're like, hey, you expressed interest.

00:40:18.406 --> 00:40:21.509
We have this thing that you expressed some degree of interest in,

00:40:21.695 --> 00:40:24.896
unless it was a mistake, unless you accidentally submitted five forms of your

00:40:24.896 --> 00:40:27.384
information, which is a joke. You didn't accidentally do that.

00:40:27.819 --> 00:40:30.506
Unless maybe someone sabotaged you. Maybe I took Mike's, yeah,

00:40:31.181 --> 00:40:35.096
I might take Mike's name and submit it on 50 different websites to see if he can get spammed.

00:40:35.096 --> 00:40:41.345
But putting that aside, I used to call people who I just knew they had a business,

00:40:41.873 --> 00:40:45.518
that my business served, right? That's a cold call.

00:40:45.982 --> 00:40:51.108
But even in that circumstance, I would say to myself, like, hey look, they're the.

00:40:52.390 --> 00:40:57.179
Customer archetype that my company's designed to serve. So there's some degree of alignment.

00:40:57.550 --> 00:41:01.138
They may have a solution already. They may not have the money to buy it.

00:41:01.434 --> 00:41:04.128
This may not be the right time of the year because they budget for these things

00:41:04.128 --> 00:41:06.968
in December and it's July or whatever.

00:41:06.968 --> 00:41:09.618
So like I would have, that was the type of stuff I was trying to get to as I

00:41:09.618 --> 00:41:12.868
just find if like, are you really not interested at all in like improving your

00:41:12.868 --> 00:41:14.908
process for X, Y, and Z or whatever?

00:41:14.908 --> 00:41:18.128
Like surely, like it's, that's the fun thing about sales. Like there's no way

00:41:18.128 --> 00:41:21.108
what I'm going to say is something they're not actually completely interested

00:41:21.108 --> 00:41:23.522
in, if I'm saying something that's going to make their life better,

00:41:23.754 --> 00:41:29.638
it's more likely that there's an issue or something that's stopping them from doing it right now.

00:41:29.638 --> 00:41:32.798
And so if I can at least find out what that is, that was why most of the time

00:41:32.798 --> 00:41:36.415
my tactic was like, hey, look, I get it. Now's not the right time.

00:41:36.711 --> 00:41:39.968
In three months when you guys are in buying or evaluation season for this type

00:41:39.968 --> 00:41:40.928
of product, can I call you back?

00:41:40.928 --> 00:41:44.678
I'm like, yeah, sure. And then I'd try to, in my opinion, I would try to get

00:41:44.678 --> 00:41:46.818
a little respect from that.

00:41:46.818 --> 00:41:49.558
Like I'm listening to what you're saying, individual who's telling me to go

00:41:49.558 --> 00:41:52.518
away right now. But like, if you, if I remember telling him,

00:41:52.518 --> 00:41:54.898
I'm like, oh, hey, like I'm going to call you back in October.

00:41:54.898 --> 00:41:58.031
I'm going to put a reminder on my calendar. So like, ha ha ha.

00:41:58.391 --> 00:42:01.268
Talk to you then. Anyways. Can I bid for your business? Yeah.

00:42:01.268 --> 00:42:04.188
No, but like you'd ask people that. And like, I think people would like some

00:42:04.188 --> 00:42:06.358
people, again, like the people tell you to get the fuck off the phone.

00:42:06.358 --> 00:42:08.258
You're like, no problem. I don't want to talk to you anyways. Like, that's me.

00:42:09.178 --> 00:42:13.778
I respect. Hang up. But the people who like you, you listen to them when they

00:42:13.778 --> 00:42:16.238
have something to say rather than just be like a robot. that's like,

00:42:16.838 --> 00:42:22.923
no, I can't get off the phone until you either hang up or I've run out of things to say.

00:42:23.190 --> 00:42:27.938
Like, when you ask and you listen, I would get at least more conversations out

00:42:27.938 --> 00:42:30.688
of that. And I thought, there was like a degree of like, hey,

00:42:30.688 --> 00:42:32.855
look, dude, yes, I'm obviously a salesperson.

00:42:34.591 --> 00:42:37.161
And if you're, if this is going to be wasting my time, just tell me,

00:42:37.161 --> 00:42:39.591
but like, Hey, if there's something here in three months, dude,

00:42:39.591 --> 00:42:42.752
I'm going to, I'm going to need sales in three months.

00:42:43.071 --> 00:42:45.061
You know, I'm going to put it around my account. I'm going to call you back

00:42:45.061 --> 00:42:46.978
and let's hopefully have a good conversation. Anyways.

00:42:47.820 --> 00:42:51.631
So my bit of a, I kind of, I turned, I tricked myself into like liking cold

00:42:51.631 --> 00:42:53.648
calling. Maybe I like it again now. I don't know.

00:42:54.373 --> 00:42:57.541
Yeah. I'll tell you what it's like, I, cold calling is just one of the methods

00:42:57.541 --> 00:42:59.601
and like, you know, a couple of really good threads.

00:43:00.481 --> 00:43:03.521
Uh you know that you brought to light there but you know as a,

00:43:04.121 --> 00:43:07.721
sort of a founder bootstrapping growing the business right like i have to do

00:43:08.101 --> 00:43:09.841
sales marketing all this other stuff and

00:43:10.221 --> 00:43:14.424
very much just like gym owners right and so before you have the capital or what

00:43:14.702 --> 00:43:18.061
unless like you start with you know a rich uncle giving you a bunch of money

00:43:18.061 --> 00:43:21.021
or somehow you've got investors like a lot of times you're going to be a gym

00:43:21.021 --> 00:43:22.406
owner maybe it's you and a buddy

00:43:22.835 --> 00:43:25.911
you guys are going to have to do a lot of the stuff yourselves and sort of figure

00:43:25.911 --> 00:43:29.581
it out right and i would argue you know software like managed memberships really

00:43:29.581 --> 00:43:31.223
helps ease a lot of that. But,

00:43:31.833 --> 00:43:35.507
The point being, it's like, to your point, a lot of it is a timing issue,

00:43:35.507 --> 00:43:39.449
right? And like, for instance, I do a lot of cold email as well.

00:43:40.217 --> 00:43:42.607
And again, cold email is probably not a good fit for gym owners,

00:43:42.607 --> 00:43:45.501
but this coincides with timing.

00:43:45.786 --> 00:43:49.537
Like, I'll find lists of people who are using PushPress, right?

00:43:49.537 --> 00:43:52.267
And I'll send out emails like, hey, you know, are you still on PushPress?

00:43:52.267 --> 00:43:58.586
And I'll mention some pain points of things I've heard from other people who are using PushPress.

00:43:58.981 --> 00:44:01.957
And, you know, some of the people are like, hey, we love PushPress,

00:44:02.317 --> 00:44:04.297
you know, screw off, we're not going to move. And it's like,

00:44:04.297 --> 00:44:07.907
okay, cool. Yeah, awesome. I'll have other people who, man, I absolutely hate

00:44:07.907 --> 00:44:09.817
PushPress. You know, this is great.

00:44:10.597 --> 00:44:13.367
Let's book a call, right? And that's who you're looking for,

00:44:13.367 --> 00:44:18.097
right? And to your point, a lot of these aren't, yeah, I don't necessarily recommend

00:44:18.097 --> 00:44:22.851
cold calling to gym owners. But yeah, some goes up as a drop in.

00:44:23.153 --> 00:44:25.074
Somebody fills out a form on your website.

00:44:25.515 --> 00:44:28.717
I think it's a good idea to set up some kind of cadence where like you're going

00:44:28.717 --> 00:44:31.088
to call them, text them, somehow do those touch points.

00:44:31.483 --> 00:44:35.847
And to that end, it's like these gym owners may think, man, that's,

00:44:35.847 --> 00:44:37.920
you know, I don't want to necessarily bug this person.

00:44:38.221 --> 00:44:40.397
But you never know what's happening on the other end of that phone,

00:44:40.397 --> 00:44:44.787
right? Like you could have somebody who their girlfriend was cheating on them

00:44:44.787 --> 00:44:49.867
and this messy breakup and, you know, they're down and out and like super depressed.

00:44:49.867 --> 00:44:51.837
And like, all of a sudden you call them like, Hey man, you know,

00:44:51.837 --> 00:44:55.037
we got this promotion, you know, unlimited, you know, whatever,

00:44:55.037 --> 00:44:57.093
unlimited sessions this month for XL.

00:44:57.511 --> 00:45:00.107
And you may have just changed your trajectory of life, right?

00:45:00.107 --> 00:45:02.537
Like that could have been, that could have been the moment where the,

00:45:02.917 --> 00:45:07.197
they're doing it for the plot now, right? Where all of a sudden you don't know,

00:45:07.197 --> 00:45:09.297
they're going to be some UFC professional or something. Yeah,

00:45:09.297 --> 00:45:11.417
play the Rocky music. Yeah, bro. I'm with you.

00:45:11.857 --> 00:45:15.067
No, you're, I mean, in my opinion, like what you're describing is kind of,

00:45:15.067 --> 00:45:18.705
it's a no brainer. Like what you're, it's like a gym operator. Like, yeah, you.

00:45:19.310 --> 00:45:22.716
Choosing to not do what you're describing in terms of like a follow-up for someone

00:45:22.716 --> 00:45:27.106
who goes to your website, submits a form or whatever, to not have the text messages

00:45:27.106 --> 00:45:30.126
or the phone calls or even the bare minimum, the email cadence is just like

00:45:30.126 --> 00:45:31.529
you're just choosing not to do your job.

00:45:32.216 --> 00:45:36.746
And then maybe I'm being harsh, but you have to do that. Like that's one-on-one

00:45:36.746 --> 00:45:38.720
stuff. So I fully support you on that.

00:45:42.006 --> 00:45:46.099
You won't continue to operate if you're not doing things like that.

00:45:48.663 --> 00:45:50.943
It's a mandate, it's part of the job, like you signed up for it.

00:45:50.943 --> 00:45:52.863
But you know, that goes back to what I was saying earlier, where it's like if

00:45:52.863 --> 00:45:55.173
you have some kind of, maybe it's like you said, the rich uncle,

00:45:55.173 --> 00:46:01.263
or your best buddy has a CrossFit gym with like, you know, 850 or 1000 extra

00:46:01.263 --> 00:46:02.533
square feet that he just gives you.

00:46:02.533 --> 00:46:05.623
Like that's different, right? Like I get that there will be circumstances where

00:46:05.623 --> 00:46:09.583
like maybe the urgency of business is just not there for whatever reason,

00:46:09.583 --> 00:46:10.783
because you got a sick setup.

00:46:10.783 --> 00:46:14.103
But for everyone else who, like you said, has like dumped all their money into

00:46:14.103 --> 00:46:18.003
something, and they're like, fuck dude, like I gotta, I can't afford to ignore these leads.

00:46:18.383 --> 00:46:21.003
It has to be like what you said. You got bills to pay. Yeah,

00:46:21.003 --> 00:46:22.313
you got fucking bills to pay.

00:46:22.313 --> 00:46:26.043
You need to make sure that you protect that by having that, like you said, John.

00:46:26.043 --> 00:46:31.243
The pipeline of people coming in so you aren't reliant on the 30 guys that are

00:46:31.243 --> 00:46:35.393
currently signed up because if half those guys disappear. Some of them are going

00:46:35.393 --> 00:46:38.013
to move or maybe they go to the next gym. Martial arts is not easy,

00:46:38.013 --> 00:46:40.768
man. Or they get injured, right? Or they get injured.

00:46:41.110 --> 00:46:44.903
Yeah, and they're going to cancel their membership because they got a spiral

00:46:44.903 --> 00:46:49.429
fracture. or, you know, rotator cuff or something, right? But yeah.

00:46:49.690 --> 00:46:52.143
Yeah, you'd mentioned you do some work with guys around churn too.

00:46:53.103 --> 00:46:55.973
I don't know if you have like any like best practices or like little tidbits

00:46:55.973 --> 00:46:59.326
of wisdom for people listening to who are in the business space or even just me.

00:47:01.563 --> 00:47:04.523
I mean, it depends. I think in our other conversations, you mentioned you were

00:47:04.523 --> 00:47:07.613
on PushPress. So I don't think, I don't know that they support this,

00:47:07.613 --> 00:47:10.183
right? But managed membership supports it at a fraction of the cost.

00:47:12.803 --> 00:47:14.723
Not to try to turn this into a single spot. No, no, of course.

00:47:14.723 --> 00:47:17.313
You would never. No, don't worry about it. Yeah. Absolutely not.

00:47:17.313 --> 00:47:20.323
No. He requested it. Yeah.

00:47:21.923 --> 00:47:25.463
I just think if you have a system, and I know PushPress does actually do this,

00:47:25.463 --> 00:47:26.703
where the check-ins, right?

00:47:26.981 --> 00:47:30.653
I think just keeping an eye on, this is one thing I see a lot of gyms struggle

00:47:30.653 --> 00:47:32.813
with, even ones that are using managed memberships though.

00:47:32.813 --> 00:47:37.312
And it's like, I think that a big part of it is if you're not enforcing check-ins

00:47:37.632 --> 00:47:42.683
or somehow tracking who's showing classes yeah yeah and and so there's a myriad

00:47:42.683 --> 00:47:45.539
of ways that you can do it even with with managed memberships like,

00:47:46.420 --> 00:47:50.960
I manage memberships. I'm obviously the most, uh, verse in how they do it,

00:47:50.960 --> 00:47:53.364
but I see push press as a check-in functionality as well.

00:47:53.752 --> 00:47:56.940
I think making sure that you're, someone comes in, they show up for a class,

00:47:56.940 --> 00:48:00.780
making sure that they check in and verifying that they've signed their waivers

00:48:00.780 --> 00:48:04.310
and all that, that they've paid, but also making sure that when they check in

00:48:04.310 --> 00:48:06.140
that you're tracking that information.

00:48:06.140 --> 00:48:09.711
So it's like, Hey, this person hasn't checked in, in a couple of weeks, what's happening.

00:48:10.019 --> 00:48:13.970
And even if like you touch with them and it's like, Hey, yeah,

00:48:13.970 --> 00:48:18.767
listen, I, have an injury or I've had a death in the family or dah, dah, dah, dah, dah.

00:48:19.091 --> 00:48:24.710
Those are a lot of opportunities where you can avoid that risk of churn.

00:48:24.710 --> 00:48:27.890
And maybe it's like, Oh, Hey man, listen, you know, we understand things have

00:48:27.890 --> 00:48:29.662
happened or sometimes things happen.

00:48:30.044 --> 00:48:33.712
We will pause your membership for two months or something like that. Right.

00:48:33.899 --> 00:48:36.922
And it's like, yeah, that's a lost revenue, but like, you've just,

00:48:37.241 --> 00:48:39.980
I'm reminded of what was it?

00:48:39.980 --> 00:48:43.122
Pets.com. It was a place where you can, or was it chewy uh.

00:48:44.100 --> 00:48:47.160
There was a service where um you could.

00:48:47.920 --> 00:48:49.430
Uh you'll get automatic dog food

00:48:49.430 --> 00:48:54.199
right and um they had a they had a very specific policy in place where

00:48:54.640 --> 00:48:59.210
if you had canceled and you had mentioned that um your dog had died or something

00:48:59.210 --> 00:49:03.220
like that that they would send you flowers oh they're like hey don't you don't

00:49:03.220 --> 00:49:06.190
have to worry about you know we're going to refund you don't worry about sending

00:49:06.190 --> 00:49:08.920
it in feel free to donate it and they would send you flowers,

00:49:09.379 --> 00:49:11.860
and the thing is It's like you do stuff like that and like, yeah,

00:49:11.860 --> 00:49:15.510
that costs them money, but they're going to have customers for life, dude. Yeah.

00:49:15.980 --> 00:49:18.980
You're right. You bought a customer for life. You're right. Think about like

00:49:18.980 --> 00:49:20.860
how much do you spend on advertising?

00:49:20.860 --> 00:49:23.170
Like what's your cost of acquisition? What's all this other stuff?

00:49:23.170 --> 00:49:27.330
Like giving a free month or, you know, reaching out or do what,

00:49:27.330 --> 00:49:31.760
like it's so much better than paying to get a new customer, right?

00:49:31.760 --> 00:49:34.193
If you just give some concessions that like, hey man, listen,

00:49:34.553 --> 00:49:36.753
we know things happen. We're going to work with you, blah, blah, blah. But.

00:49:37.311 --> 00:49:42.302
You can't know that if you're not checking in, right? Like that's a big thing.

00:49:42.302 --> 00:49:46.263
And I see it across the board. And unfortunately, like managed memberships makes it super easy.

00:49:46.646 --> 00:49:50.312
There's all sorts of methods people can use. There's like a QR code that you

00:49:50.312 --> 00:49:52.162
can scan and have like a little thing there.

00:49:52.162 --> 00:49:57.022
People can type in their number and all that other stuff. But a lot of time

00:49:57.022 --> 00:49:59.762
and energy has been invested in making that as easy as possible.

00:49:59.762 --> 00:50:03.962
But I still see a significant portion of gym owners for whatever reason,

00:50:03.962 --> 00:50:08.054
like they don't want to have that discipline of forcing in those check-ins.

00:50:08.391 --> 00:50:11.742
And I think that's really the only way that you're gonna have a good idea of

00:50:11.742 --> 00:50:16.072
like, okay, cool, this person's at risk of churn or this is what's happening.

00:50:16.812 --> 00:50:19.742
So there's some fundamentals around, like you said, tracking customer behavior.

00:50:19.742 --> 00:50:23.932
Like if so-and-so was going to four classes a week for three months and then,

00:50:23.932 --> 00:50:25.382
like you said, if you're using the right...

00:50:26.305 --> 00:50:31.991
If you're using your gym management software to be able to identify when that

00:50:31.991 --> 00:50:35.541
dude who was a super user for a couple months starts to trail off and then three

00:50:35.541 --> 00:50:38.692
or four months go about i mean hopefully faster than that like you identified at least but,

00:50:39.255 --> 00:50:43.051
um as you said you start to see that they maybe they get jumped i don't know

00:50:43.051 --> 00:50:46.071
what the terminology is i want to say like the one of the systems i've used

00:50:46.071 --> 00:50:48.433
in the past called them lost sheep um.

00:50:49.216 --> 00:50:52.531
I guess yeah i know i got i don't know like maybe the sheep are like just wandering

00:50:52.531 --> 00:50:56.507
out around outside of the flock or whatever for and that's why they picked that phrase but,

00:50:57.030 --> 00:51:00.751
um the lost sheep get put on a list and that's like you said can be something

00:51:00.751 --> 00:51:05.203
it's either automated through the tool or you can shoot them a note and say hey we miss you like,

00:51:05.795 --> 00:51:09.411
come in and you know well i don't know that's that's where the business owner

00:51:09.411 --> 00:51:12.021
has to use a little bit of creativity like come up with the the call to action

00:51:12.021 --> 00:51:16.181
to to re-engage with that person before like you said they they leave well and

00:51:16.181 --> 00:51:19.931
i i think that's also good too considering that like,

00:51:20.558 --> 00:51:23.309
almost every jujitsu business.

00:51:24.029 --> 00:51:27.881
Talks about like community and family and like you know they they like to liken

00:51:27.881 --> 00:51:31.211
that which you know whatever some might say that's like cult-like behavior but

00:51:31.211 --> 00:51:32.538
whatever uh you know like,

00:51:33.091 --> 00:51:37.121
the community part is a huge aspect of the jujitsu gym and like if you're just

00:51:37.121 --> 00:51:40.531
going to let people not show up and use their membership it really does it really

00:51:40.531 --> 00:51:45.391
shows that you don't necessarily care right like it's almost it's contradictory

00:51:45.391 --> 00:51:46.946
to this thing that you're selling people,

00:51:47.439 --> 00:51:49.512
so even if they,

00:51:50.051 --> 00:51:55.071
even if it's you know hey oh they're paying cool whatever but you know you really should,

00:51:55.631 --> 00:52:00.071
like you're saying check in on these people because maybe they don't know that they're paying you

00:52:00.411 --> 00:52:03.571
maybe you know maybe they've forgotten it's just that's probably what a lot

00:52:03.571 --> 00:52:06.601
of business owners are really scared of doing they're like oh if i if i message

00:52:06.601 --> 00:52:09.621
this guy he might just cancel rather than just let it let it run but maybe you

00:52:09.621 --> 00:52:11.925
get this guy back that's right rather than like

00:52:12.110 --> 00:52:15.671
you know at the end of the year they're you know evaluating their budget and they're like,

00:52:16.351 --> 00:52:19.261
I've been paying for this thing and I don't I'm not using this at all.

00:52:19.261 --> 00:52:21.981
Your business model shouldn't be built around like people forgetting that they're

00:52:21.981 --> 00:52:23.051
paying you. I agree with you.

00:52:23.391 --> 00:52:25.501
You should be willing to provide that service.

00:52:26.493 --> 00:52:29.690
That's the sad part, too. It's like the Planet Fitness business model,

00:52:29.690 --> 00:52:32.263
they call it, right? And it's like so many gym owners.

00:52:32.513 --> 00:52:36.380
And that's a big part, too, whenever we're doing, because we offer free migration

00:52:36.380 --> 00:52:37.720
and assistance and all that.

00:52:37.993 --> 00:52:43.450
And the migration is a big part of that. And you get into the weeds on the technical aspect of it.

00:52:43.450 --> 00:52:47.980
And there's a lot of effort that goes into making it so that you can do that

00:52:47.980 --> 00:52:51.970
migration without people reentering their credit card. because of that same

00:52:51.970 --> 00:52:55.593
fear of like, oh, if I lose it, they're making this payment. Yeah.

00:52:56.023 --> 00:52:58.620
Yeah. Which we offer that, you know, that's a service that we do,

00:52:58.620 --> 00:53:01.680
but, but more importantly to like outside of the tech aspect of it,

00:53:01.680 --> 00:53:04.420
it's like, yeah, you don't want those sort of zombie members.

00:53:04.420 --> 00:53:07.190
Right. Because to, to the point that you guys were already making about the

00:53:07.190 --> 00:53:10.541
community. Right. And that's always something that I try to push as well.

00:53:10.878 --> 00:53:13.980
And I think even outside of the technological factor of it, like when I look

00:53:13.980 --> 00:53:16.980
and when I first started, like, Hey, I had that, that guy that,

00:53:16.980 --> 00:53:18.262
that helped me and got me in.

00:53:18.581 --> 00:53:21.880
But also I ended up becoming the pet white belt of a blue belt.

00:53:22.380 --> 00:53:25.610
And that guy really helped as well. Like he was like, you know,

00:53:25.610 --> 00:53:28.760
like we had the instruction obviously, and that was helpful,

00:53:28.760 --> 00:53:30.540
but he was super helpful too.

00:53:30.540 --> 00:53:34.350
And that, like, we would maybe go into some deeper nuances and granted,

00:53:34.350 --> 00:53:38.020
you know, you, as a blue belt myself, now you, you probably shouldn't be taking

00:53:38.020 --> 00:53:41.375
a whole lot of instruction from a blue belt, but it was nice.

00:53:41.375 --> 00:53:45.170
I mean, like, cause I had absolutely no idea what I was doing.

00:53:45.170 --> 00:53:48.710
Right. And he at least had a little bit more of an idea and in two though you

00:53:48.710 --> 00:53:52.660
had that camaraderie and it was just like you know i've got buddies now who

00:53:52.660 --> 00:53:56.300
is like i'm expecting to see them at various classes and if they're not there

00:53:56.300 --> 00:53:58.090
i'll text them yeah shame them bro.

00:53:58.810 --> 00:54:02.880
Like i'm doing that and i'm not even the owner but it's like i'm curious like

00:54:02.880 --> 00:54:06.810
hey bro you know we didn't get to work together what's up and this is your buddy

00:54:06.810 --> 00:54:08.143
foster that community even.

00:54:08.892 --> 00:54:13.411
Exactly there's this guy i love him to death sway uh is his name and it's like

00:54:13.411 --> 00:54:17.170
he started around the same time as i did and it's just so funny because like

00:54:17.524 --> 00:54:21.681
his his presence if it's not there it's like there's this whole yeah.

00:54:23.721 --> 00:54:27.281
And so like and it's it's unfortunate that you know his work had changed and

00:54:27.321 --> 00:54:30.181
so he can't show up to some of the noon classes and like it's a huge bummer

00:54:30.181 --> 00:54:32.481
for me yeah but like i think that there's that

00:54:32.901 --> 00:54:37.851
if you foster that community and i think a part of it is you know maybe having

00:54:37.851 --> 00:54:41.181
upper belts, making sure that those are pairing with the lower belts and that

00:54:41.181 --> 00:54:44.916
kind of stuff and to, to foster a city, cause you don't want to have white belts

00:54:45.154 --> 00:54:46.691
working with white belts half the time.

00:54:46.691 --> 00:54:50.501
Right. Especially like if you're doing something crazy, like heel hooks or whatever, but, uh,

00:54:51.301 --> 00:54:55.271
just from a liability perspective, but yeah, I think, I think having that good

00:54:55.271 --> 00:54:59.541
community and fostering those sort of communications, even outside of the tech

00:54:59.541 --> 00:55:05.401
sector really helps sort of, you know, provide that self-correcting a hundred percent.

00:55:05.741 --> 00:55:10.713
We're really in the business like the business behind the business is the community business it's um.

00:55:11.799 --> 00:55:14.351
You know you like people pay you for martial arts but they you know they're

00:55:14.351 --> 00:55:17.731
they're really sticking around and showing up because of the other people they

00:55:17.731 --> 00:55:20.238
train with who they become really close with and like you said it could be,

00:55:20.848 --> 00:55:23.761
camaraderie of like you and your homie who signed up within a week of i mean

00:55:23.761 --> 00:55:26.261
i mean mike have talked about this on the show like i have my buddy kelly who

00:55:26.261 --> 00:55:28.831
i've referenced it's been a while since i've seen i mean it's been years i've

00:55:28.831 --> 00:55:32.061
seen this guy but he and i started within like the same like two weeks we're

00:55:32.061 --> 00:55:34.421
like white belt bros together then blue belt bros together.

00:55:34.421 --> 00:55:37.481
And I was like, dude, this is my homie. Like we, we beat the shit out of each

00:55:37.481 --> 00:55:40.231
other, uh, on the way up and we were probably terrible.

00:55:40.231 --> 00:55:42.691
But like at the time you're like, dude, this is awesome. Like,

00:55:42.691 --> 00:55:44.841
it's like, we, I would, I would do the same thing. I'm like,

00:55:44.841 --> 00:55:48.371
dude, like you're going to class, right? Like we're, we're like road dogs now.

00:55:48.371 --> 00:55:50.411
Like we're on this job. We got to get blue belts together. We got to get purple

00:55:50.411 --> 00:55:52.590
belts together. Like it's, it's fun.

00:55:52.973 --> 00:55:57.181
And, um, that's like, I mean, to your point, like, you know,

00:55:57.181 --> 00:56:05.134
that's one of those things that, um, it's tough to put your finger on one little detail that,

00:56:06.021 --> 00:56:11.919
like one like business operation that drives and nurtures the community aspect

00:56:11.919 --> 00:56:15.269
it's like a bit of a choice you have to make as a.

00:56:16.505 --> 00:56:21.129
Team leader business owner to like go out of your way to find ways if you can

00:56:21.129 --> 00:56:23.231
you and you can in my opinion but like there's,

00:56:24.044 --> 00:56:28.399
like habits or behaviors or like a cadence of like things you should do to nurture

00:56:28.399 --> 00:56:32.189
that because that's what's in my opinion that's one of at least just having

00:56:32.189 --> 00:56:34.841
the making the choice as the business owner to think about it

00:56:35.148 --> 00:56:37.559
you're not going to be able to always put your finger on the exact that's the

00:56:37.559 --> 00:56:39.781
tough thing about businesses like things change too so like oh

00:56:40.123 --> 00:56:43.966
all the time like the the landscape constantly evolves and if you have the,

00:56:44.936 --> 00:56:49.039
if you make the choice to like study when the sales tactics have to change when

00:56:49.039 --> 00:56:51.759
the community nurturing tactics have to change but if you choose to at least

00:56:51.759 --> 00:56:55.372
keep your eye on these things like you'll adapt you'll adapt with it um,

00:56:57.260 --> 00:56:59.049
but it's it's uh.

00:57:01.178 --> 00:57:07.018
I mean, it's recognized, but also under-recognized as a major lever of what

00:57:07.018 --> 00:57:12.398
I think that the best-in-breed academies do that end up being great communities,

00:57:12.398 --> 00:57:13.908
but also very successful businesses.

00:57:14.993 --> 00:57:21.128
Yeah, and I feel like that is an area where, honestly, these smaller operators have an advantage.

00:57:21.128 --> 00:57:25.938
And for whatever reason, you know, they're not using that.

00:57:25.938 --> 00:57:31.018
And like the better example or the easier example I could say is like in weightlifting

00:57:31.018 --> 00:57:34.638
gyms, right? And it's like nobody ever really talks about, you know,

00:57:34.638 --> 00:57:37.988
the Planet Fitness community, right? Or like you go to a Planet Fitness and

00:57:37.988 --> 00:57:40.418
you don't really feel like, oh, yeah, you know, I belong.

00:57:40.838 --> 00:57:43.978
Even though maybe their advertisement tries to claim that you do feel that,

00:57:43.978 --> 00:57:44.900
right? You don't feel that.

00:57:45.219 --> 00:57:48.018
But if you go to a smaller community gym, like, you know, again,

00:57:48.018 --> 00:57:50.055
weightlifting gyms is another vertical we serve.

00:57:50.461 --> 00:57:53.588
You know, there's this, you know, the Pitt Barbell Club here in Evansville,

00:57:53.588 --> 00:57:58.378
right? It's a smaller mom-and-pop establishment. They have such a deep-knit community.

00:57:58.718 --> 00:58:02.888
They'll have people that just show up, just hang out and talk shop about stuff.

00:58:02.888 --> 00:58:07.238
Maybe it's a rest day for them, but they really want to go to the gym and meet

00:58:07.238 --> 00:58:09.378
their buddies and that kind of stuff.

00:58:09.378 --> 00:58:12.838
You don't get that at Planet Fitness. You get that at the smaller mom-and-pops

00:58:12.838 --> 00:58:15.410
because inherently, being a smaller operator,

00:58:16.198 --> 00:58:22.078
you want to have systems in place, but there's something about that homemade

00:58:22.078 --> 00:58:25.658
cookies versus ones you buy at Walmart, right? Like you can taste the difference.

00:58:26.138 --> 00:58:30.378
And I think that's it, that sort of, that Jenna Chacroix, right?

00:58:30.998 --> 00:58:35.628
That weird aspect that you can't quite put a finger on that I feel like a lot

00:58:35.628 --> 00:58:38.798
of these smaller operations need to lean into and recognize that like,

00:58:38.798 --> 00:58:41.265
yeah, listen, you may not have the same budget or.

00:58:42.098 --> 00:58:46.188
Marketing prowess as some of these larger corporations, but like that is the

00:58:46.188 --> 00:58:52.278
fact that you are a smaller mom and pop operation is inherently a,

00:58:53.138 --> 00:58:56.418
competitive advantage in a lot of these community-driven aspects.

00:58:57.178 --> 00:59:00.271
And to your point, I would argue as well that.

00:59:01.462 --> 00:59:04.896
Cultivating a community where, like you said, where one of the dudes who's in

00:59:04.896 --> 00:59:08.856
on his rest day, but he's there to, like, back up one of his bros just to spot

00:59:08.856 --> 00:59:11.546
because he's going to hit PR and he's going to be there to be like,

00:59:11.546 --> 00:59:13.806
good job, good job, Swole Mate, or whatever.

00:59:13.806 --> 00:59:17.030
Like, you know, like, when you do, like, that's not, that doesn't cost any money.

00:59:17.569 --> 00:59:24.046
It doesn't cost any money. It's just choosing to allow that environment where,

00:59:24.046 --> 00:59:28.256
like, or build that environment where people want to just be there for that

00:59:28.256 --> 00:59:29.916
type of, that doesn't cost any money.

00:59:29.916 --> 00:59:35.056
I mean, I guess you gotta, you have to do that. You have to like have that environment

00:59:35.056 --> 00:59:39.496
as the, I don't know, the head lifting guy or whatever, the owner of the business

00:59:39.496 --> 00:59:42.664
to say, yeah, yeah, like come on through, like we're happy to have you, you know.

00:59:43.987 --> 00:59:47.952
Back up Mike. Mike's about to squat 450 and like that's a big deal to Mike and

00:59:47.952 --> 00:59:50.482
just show up and cheer. And like, yeah, I've watched videos of like,

00:59:50.482 --> 00:59:53.302
you know, like I'm sure you guys have both seen those videos of like huge dudes

00:59:53.302 --> 00:59:55.992
hitting PRs where there's like 30 guys around him screaming at the top.

00:59:57.274 --> 01:00:02.182
It's fucking awesome. I love those videos. There's like a cheering squad of

01:00:02.182 --> 01:00:05.472
dudes for the one guy who's about to break a record for himself.

01:00:05.472 --> 01:00:08.229
And they're like, and they scream and cheer. It's awesome.

01:00:08.948 --> 01:00:12.192
Absolutely. Yeah. It's infectious. Like you get that. And it's like,

01:00:12.192 --> 01:00:15.681
Like, I don't know. It's hard to not feel inspired by that, right? It's the best.

01:00:16.122 --> 01:00:18.982
Yeah. So your point, it's like, there's all these videos. Well,

01:00:18.982 --> 01:00:21.562
there was one, it was like, obviously these are like internet celebrities.

01:00:21.562 --> 01:00:23.610
I remember, what was his name? Half Thor.

01:00:23.924 --> 01:00:27.512
Like he did some kind of squat PR and he had, you know, but he had all his bros in the background.

01:00:27.512 --> 01:00:29.522
And again, that's, you know, these are kind of internet celebrities,

01:00:29.522 --> 01:00:31.292
but like, still it's that, that energy, man.

01:00:31.292 --> 01:00:34.082
It's like, it's palpable. Even watching a video of it, it's just like,

01:00:34.082 --> 01:00:38.092
oh, it gets your testosterone. Right. Like he just, let me go bang out some

01:00:38.092 --> 01:00:41.802
reps here. I want to hit a PR as well. Right. Like, and I feel like that's,

01:00:41.802 --> 01:00:44.272
you know, that's, that's it. It's like this self-feeding cycle,

01:00:44.272 --> 01:00:45.989
you know, it's, it's sort of a magnet, right?

01:00:46.854 --> 01:00:50.722
Yeah. That's like culture stuff. Yeah. And like, uh, when you build a culture

01:00:50.722 --> 01:00:54.842
like that to your, your members, right? Like your members start selling memberships.

01:00:54.842 --> 01:00:58.532
That's right. Right. Like, so you're, it becomes almost like a,

01:00:58.872 --> 01:01:00.982
the community becomes like the main marketing tool.

01:01:01.112 --> 01:01:04.462
So if you can just get to a point where people enjoy being there,

01:01:04.462 --> 01:01:06.917
they like enjoy hanging out with each other.

01:01:06.917 --> 01:01:09.762
Then they start bringing other people in. those people see that they want to

01:01:09.762 --> 01:01:14.602
be a part of that and like it just compounds right so you start like you have

01:01:14.602 --> 01:01:17.222
the guy that like shows up to class even though he can't train,

01:01:17.922 --> 01:01:22.042
and then you know like he's hanging out like that kind of thing the people that

01:01:22.042 --> 01:01:25.992
just want to be there is almost better than people just want to use the service

01:01:25.992 --> 01:01:27.682
right so it's a good sign yeah.

01:01:28.759 --> 01:01:36.635
Yeah man uh before we let you go I told you you have to bring a combat confession,

01:01:37.852 --> 01:01:43.200
so Jonathan Clem what is your combat confession for today I'm.

01:01:44.612 --> 01:01:48.254
Yeah. So, you know, I think we originally talked about this too,

01:01:48.254 --> 01:01:50.814
in our, in our first conversation, I kind of touched on it, but my,

01:01:51.174 --> 01:01:55.398
uh, first, um, my first competition, it was an IBJJF one.

01:01:55.909 --> 01:01:59.821
Um, and, and sort of my experience, uh, with that, um.

01:02:00.994 --> 01:02:03.894
You know, if people start Googling enough, they, they may be able to find it,

01:02:03.894 --> 01:02:07.554
uh, the video cause it is on the internet, but the, uh, anyways,

01:02:07.554 --> 01:02:12.521
point being is like, you know, I was still a white belt at the time.

01:02:13.038 --> 01:02:15.974
And I don't, I'm, I'm a bit of an idiot, I guess. I don't know.

01:02:15.974 --> 01:02:21.467
But again, I live in Evansville and, um, I was like, man, I really want to do a competition.

01:02:21.861 --> 01:02:27.568
And for some reason I landed on an IBJJF competition in Sanford, Florida.

01:02:27.841 --> 01:02:31.334
And so it was like a 14 hour drive and nobody else from my gym was going to

01:02:31.334 --> 01:02:35.074
go. So like already that was like, I don't know why I did that, but I did.

01:02:35.474 --> 01:02:39.404
And, you know, being a family man, I sort of baked it into like a family vacation,

01:02:39.404 --> 01:02:43.375
right? Like we were going to go do this competition and then hit up Disney world afterwards.

01:02:43.822 --> 01:02:47.484
And so it was great. I ended up cutting weight. I was training.

01:02:47.484 --> 01:02:49.633
I think I had like, you know, three months leeway.

01:02:49.975 --> 01:02:53.174
I was doing a lot of cardio, getting my gas tank up. I was, you know,

01:02:53.174 --> 01:02:56.337
focusing on, you know, drilling and doing various techniques.

01:02:57.194 --> 01:03:00.204
Uh, again, cut weight, did all this stuff. And I remember too,

01:03:00.204 --> 01:03:04.684
like, um, just with my wife in the hotel room, like the night before,

01:03:04.684 --> 01:03:07.054
you know, I was making sure I was going through some drills as well.

01:03:07.054 --> 01:03:09.891
And like, you know, this is what, you know, whatever, like trying to keep sharp.

01:03:10.489 --> 01:03:14.304
And I had this like whole game plan of like how I was going to do my takedowns

01:03:14.304 --> 01:03:15.094
and that kind of stuff or what.

01:03:16.839 --> 01:03:23.052
I just remember, um, you know, I, the, the whole thing for my first competition,

01:03:23.052 --> 01:03:26.542
I was a bundle of nerves and it wasn't even the, it wasn't even the,

01:03:26.882 --> 01:03:30.792
the whole, like, I felt pretty good about the actual experience.

01:03:30.792 --> 01:03:33.912
Like once I got on the mat, I felt like I was going to be pretty safe,

01:03:33.912 --> 01:03:35.543
you know, just because whatever.

01:03:35.897 --> 01:03:40.622
Uh, but the, just the whole pomp and circumstance of it all and like showing

01:03:40.622 --> 01:03:44.042
up and like, there were all this, like, there was all this anxiety of like,

01:03:44.042 --> 01:03:47.532
what if there, what if the guy says my belt's too short and like,

01:03:47.532 --> 01:03:49.482
you know, how they, they measure your gi, right?

01:03:49.482 --> 01:03:52.142
Like, oh my God, what, what's going to happen if, you know, I,

01:03:52.142 --> 01:03:55.312
for whatever reason I packed an extra gi as well, but like, what if they don't

01:03:55.312 --> 01:03:59.132
like the sleeve length on this or whatever? Right. And so I'm all nervous and,

01:03:59.132 --> 01:04:03.005
and out of my head space, just thinking about all that silly stuff.

01:04:03.359 --> 01:04:07.122
And so then finally I get through that, I'm in the bullpen, I'm just waiting

01:04:07.422 --> 01:04:11.898
and timing the, timing the warmup too was a, was a big challenge.

01:04:12.293 --> 01:04:14.692
But I remember I, you know, I was like, okay, cool. We drove,

01:04:14.692 --> 01:04:16.641
you know, I, I paid my money to come in here.

01:04:16.978 --> 01:04:20.937
I drove 14 hours. I got my family here, you know, my son's watching this.

01:04:21.413 --> 01:04:25.522
Um, and so we go and we do the fist bump and I was just like,

01:04:25.522 --> 01:04:29.872
I don't know. I just went stupid. And, uh, I just remember like in some of it,

01:04:29.872 --> 01:04:32.132
I was thinking, okay, cool. I'm going to go in and do this like kind of body

01:04:32.132 --> 01:04:36.210
lock bear hug thing, you know, whatever, that's going to be something that I go for.

01:04:36.633 --> 01:04:43.501
Um, and I shot in one arm and then he got I guess maybe it was a wizard,

01:04:43.762 --> 01:04:48.528
but I don't know, he had downward pressure on it, and I got concerned. I was like, oh no.

01:04:49.381 --> 01:04:53.151
This is, I'm getting set up for something. And so I, that in that brief moment

01:04:53.151 --> 01:04:57.234
of hesitation, he ended up, uh, he ended up taking me down.

01:04:57.722 --> 01:05:00.911
And then I spent like, you know, four and a half minutes, almost five whole

01:05:00.911 --> 01:05:02.713
minutes under a neon belly.

01:05:03.008 --> 01:05:08.241
And it was a very, uh, you know, even at that time, for whatever reason,

01:05:08.241 --> 01:05:12.151
like, you know, nowadays I know what to do if I'm under neon belly, right.

01:05:12.151 --> 01:05:14.221
There's a couple of different things you can swim your hand under,

01:05:14.221 --> 01:05:18.221
right. tried to do that or like push up on their knee and sort of post off and

01:05:18.221 --> 01:05:20.626
then do a, you know, shrimp out.

01:05:20.974 --> 01:05:26.071
And I did none of that during this. And so he ended up transitioning,

01:05:26.071 --> 01:05:30.081
right? And I guess he was able to spam points that way or something because

01:05:30.081 --> 01:05:34.629
he ended up, he didn't sub me. So that's the one thing I'll hang my hat on is I didn't get subbed.

01:05:35.481 --> 01:05:39.546
But, you know, he ended up beating me 20 to zip on points.

01:05:39.864 --> 01:05:42.811
And again, it was a pathetic display. I stayed under knee on belly,

01:05:42.811 --> 01:05:44.660
you know, practically the entire time.

01:05:45.007 --> 01:05:50.091
But I'll tell you what, you know, after doing that, I felt the biggest wave

01:05:50.091 --> 01:05:52.221
of euphoria, like there was something about it.

01:05:52.221 --> 01:05:55.201
Like I was like, my cardio was good at that point.

01:05:55.201 --> 01:05:58.721
And so I know it wasn't just the fact that I was worked up from the cardio aspect,

01:05:58.721 --> 01:06:02.131
but like my heart was like beating out of my chest and I could hear my pulse in my ears.

01:06:02.131 --> 01:06:04.991
And like, it was just the adrenaline, right. That had gotten me.

01:06:04.991 --> 01:06:08.231
And so I was just, I remember even though he had beat me, like I,

01:06:08.231 --> 01:06:10.131
I thanked him, I shook his hand afterwards.

01:06:10.131 --> 01:06:13.171
And it was like a genuine thank you for that experience. I don't know,

01:06:13.171 --> 01:06:17.021
like it just felt so good having done that, even though I lost, right.

01:06:17.021 --> 01:06:20.441
And it was kind of humiliating in retrospect, but you know, I suited up,

01:06:20.441 --> 01:06:24.501
I showed up, you know, I bought the ticket, took the ride, so to speak.

01:06:24.501 --> 01:06:28.951
And yeah, I don't know. It was a, it was a miserable experience.

01:06:28.951 --> 01:06:31.243
It was a, it was a miserable performance for sure.

01:06:32.241 --> 01:06:34.511
But I'm definitely thankful that, that I actually, you know,

01:06:34.511 --> 01:06:40.081
went through it. And, um, you know, afterwards, you know, we, I, I got to dry my tears.

01:06:40.661 --> 01:06:45.301
Uh, we ate some steak, you know, who did the Disney world and that kind of stuff.

01:06:45.301 --> 01:06:50.266
So yeah, I mean, it wasn't, it wasn't a wholly bad experience, but, um,

01:06:50.859 --> 01:06:54.974
Yeah, I guess that would be my confession there.

01:06:55.334 --> 01:07:01.707
At any point during this, were you thinking about the fact that your wife was watching?

01:07:03.396 --> 01:07:07.222
I like, I'm genuinely curious. Like my son. Yeah.

01:07:07.642 --> 01:07:10.522
Well, it was my son mostly. And it was funny too. Cause in the video,

01:07:10.942 --> 01:07:15.162
um, he ends up freaking out because he was at the time, let me see, I was a white belt.

01:07:15.162 --> 01:07:20.552
So he was maybe two, maybe he was two years old and, and he was like cheering

01:07:20.552 --> 01:07:25.200
me on when we started. And then as soon as he saw me on the ground though, he starts like crying.

01:07:25.595 --> 01:07:29.682
And so the woman next to my wife has to like hold the phone and she's like holding it for her.

01:07:29.682 --> 01:07:32.252
She's like trying to console my son. Cause I guess he thought,

01:07:32.252 --> 01:07:34.702
you know, his dad's really getting hurt here and that kind of stuff.

01:07:34.702 --> 01:07:39.032
So, uh, but I wasn't aware of any of that at the time because I,

01:07:39.032 --> 01:07:42.662
you know, this was at a, um, I mean, it was that like a larger high school,

01:07:43.042 --> 01:07:44.577
like kind of auditorium thing.

01:07:44.966 --> 01:07:49.372
And so there were a good ways away from me. So like, I wasn't intimately aware

01:07:49.372 --> 01:07:52.602
that that was happening, but afterwards it was hilarious and I knew they were watching.

01:07:52.602 --> 01:07:55.948
Yeah. But I don't know how much that played into it other than like, I,

01:07:57.322 --> 01:08:00.912
think, I think something i just wasn't prepared for the con because i just remember

01:08:00.912 --> 01:08:05.982
like we did the we did the fist bump or whatever and then for whatever i don't

01:08:05.982 --> 01:08:10.242
know i just wasn't as aggressive out of the gate as i probably should have been and then,

01:08:11.022 --> 01:08:15.435
um i don't know it was it was just interesting it was an interesting uh experience for sure,

01:08:16.079 --> 01:08:20.422
i i asked because i've had my wife attend one competition i wasn't thinking

01:08:20.422 --> 01:08:25.692
about her being there and watching it but i have the video from her and the

01:08:25.692 --> 01:08:29.462
whole time you just hear going oh shit fuck oh shit shit fuck.

01:08:31.902 --> 01:08:38.122
So uh yeah i i now i'm vastly aware of the fact that like this person that loves

01:08:38.122 --> 01:08:41.202
me is watching she she doesn't come to any of my competitions she's,

01:08:42.097 --> 01:08:46.182
she doesn't want to but well henry's actually my son's actually interested in

01:08:46.182 --> 01:08:51.002
it now so he might he might convince her to come back but but uh yeah i was

01:08:51.002 --> 01:08:52.976
just I'm just curious if you ever thought about that.

01:08:53.869 --> 01:08:57.804
But also, you're telling me, we don't even have to look for this footage. You have the footage.

01:09:00.219 --> 01:09:05.249
I do have a photo. I may share a link. It is uneventful, I guess.

01:09:05.249 --> 01:09:10.299
It's uneventful in terms of like, again, you want to see a white belt under

01:09:10.299 --> 01:09:15.079
Neon Belly for five minutes. But it's one of those. I think I mentioned,

01:09:17.199 --> 01:09:21.599
when we were originally talking about it, that I had taken the footage,

01:09:21.599 --> 01:09:25.479
I put it on the internet, and I shared it with some buddies just to kind of get their feedback.

01:09:25.479 --> 01:09:28.699
But obviously you know with what feedback you're going to give other than john

01:09:28.699 --> 01:09:31.609
you really got to work on that don't get underneath your belly it's probably

01:09:31.609 --> 01:09:33.879
the correct answer just don't be there you know,

01:09:34.739 --> 01:09:38.169
just don't be there yeah that's always i always love that because that is it's

01:09:38.169 --> 01:09:42.079
like you'll you'll be talking with um you know the instructor or whatever and

01:09:42.079 --> 01:09:44.979
it's like listen you know under side control i'm having these issues they're

01:09:44.979 --> 01:09:47.119
like yeah well wait a second don't get under side control,

01:09:48.459 --> 01:09:50.419
and i thought of that you know it's a genius plan.

01:09:52.501 --> 01:09:56.259
Yeah i know it took me several years before I was like able to watch it again.

01:09:57.159 --> 01:10:00.979
And then now it's like too, as a blue belt, you know, whatever, I'm marginally better.

01:10:02.159 --> 01:10:04.472
But at least I know there's some things I probably could have done.

01:10:04.715 --> 01:10:08.489
At least I probably could have fought out and gotten to under his side control,

01:10:08.489 --> 01:10:10.282
right? Like, or something like that, I'm sure.

01:10:10.597 --> 01:10:15.429
But I think at the time I was very, I was hyper concerned that he was going

01:10:15.429 --> 01:10:17.479
to arm bar me for whatever reason.

01:10:17.479 --> 01:10:20.189
I remember like specifically, I was like, oh, he's gonna arm bar me.

01:10:20.189 --> 01:10:23.419
And so like, I was very constant of where my arms were, but,

01:10:24.099 --> 01:10:27.079
in a white belt foolish manner that,

01:10:27.759 --> 01:10:30.659
you know I don't know like it was there's no excuse for it other than it you

01:10:30.659 --> 01:10:34.459
know it was a lack of skill and preparation big deal man it was your first tournament

01:10:34.459 --> 01:10:37.829
you did it it's no problem it was your first tournament you did it most people

01:10:37.829 --> 01:10:40.639
don't yeah well and like it was your first tournament right like who,

01:10:41.490 --> 01:10:45.380
No one expects you to be, like, the master of the thing you did one time,

01:10:45.380 --> 01:10:48.930
you know, like, your first time. You know, you just, you've got the video,

01:10:48.930 --> 01:10:51.004
you watch it, you write it down, you take some notes.

01:10:51.229 --> 01:10:54.530
What is it we say, Scott, you don't have the right to have expectations?

01:10:54.530 --> 01:10:56.800
That is what I say. Yeah. That is what I say.

01:10:57.220 --> 01:11:00.020
I say it as, like, it's kind of like a tough love, but it's also,

01:11:00.020 --> 01:11:02.160
like, a level set with people. It's like, give yourself a break,

01:11:02.160 --> 01:11:03.977
too. Like, you know, it's okay.

01:11:04.524 --> 01:11:06.750
Like, you're brand new. Yeah. It's like, what sport did we ever play?

01:11:06.750 --> 01:11:08.740
We were, like, the very first game that we ever played, we were like,

01:11:08.740 --> 01:11:10.455
I'm fucking sick at this.

01:11:10.694 --> 01:11:15.430
Like some people out there probably it wasn't me so um yeah it's like a way

01:11:15.430 --> 01:11:19.340
to kind of be like give yourself a break no problem did you get injured no okay

01:11:19.340 --> 01:11:24.120
good you did better in your first competition than i did in my first one so you can put that on the

01:11:24.560 --> 01:11:29.500
yeah add that there you go mantle too i got choked out in like 10 seconds nice.

01:11:30.560 --> 01:11:34.170
I'm already feeling better about it yeah excellent and there's the uh there's

01:11:34.170 --> 01:11:39.360
the common uh cope with uh you just say that the other guy's sandbagging he

01:11:39.360 --> 01:11:44.820
was actually a blue belt yeah dude's a beast bro they're always sandbagging yeah.

01:11:46.020 --> 01:11:49.649
It's always the other guy's sandbagging well it's too we joke about that but like,

01:11:50.420 --> 01:11:53.510
you know there have been times where it's like man it'd be nice if i could just

01:11:53.510 --> 01:11:58.680
do like a white belt competition you know but then too knowing me i would encounter

01:11:58.680 --> 01:12:01.520
somebody who would maybe they are a real white belt but it's like,

01:12:02.440 --> 01:12:05.040
um you know they're super athletic and so i just get smoked anyways.

01:12:05.360 --> 01:12:09.200
And that kind of really hurt. I'd rather lose that at blue belt level than lose

01:12:09.200 --> 01:12:13.180
that white belt level at this point, right? For sure. Do the blue belt tournament.

01:12:14.020 --> 01:12:17.030
Do your belt tournament. If you win, it's because you're great.

01:12:17.030 --> 01:12:20.654
You're going to be saltier if you went to a white belt tournament. You're like, fuck!

01:12:21.640 --> 01:12:24.640
I was supposed to be the sandbagger. I was supposed to smoke this motherfucker.

01:12:24.980 --> 01:12:26.950
And maybe you do, and then if you do smoke him, you're like,

01:12:26.950 --> 01:12:28.640
goddammit, I'm a blue belt.

01:12:30.060 --> 01:12:35.637
It's like, yeah. No one feels good about this. there's no winning there compete at your belt level,

01:12:36.520 --> 01:12:40.382
No, you didn't. Good job, man. Well, thank you for sharing that story,

01:12:40.382 --> 01:12:42.062
John. Thank you for coming on the show.

01:12:43.689 --> 01:12:51.522
Where, how can people get in touch with you, especially if they're interested in Manage Memberships?

01:12:52.962 --> 01:12:57.422
Yeah, absolutely. Check out managememberships.com. That's manage with no D,

01:12:57.922 --> 01:13:02.421
managememberships.com. If you put in a D, it'll also work, but managememberships.com.

01:13:02.781 --> 01:13:05.811
And then also, they can feel free to reach out to me directly.

01:13:06.078 --> 01:13:10.002
I'm John spelled J O N at managememberships.com.

01:13:10.443 --> 01:13:14.622
Uh, you know, love to, um, you know, talk shop with anybody,

01:13:14.622 --> 01:13:16.602
you know, no, no hard sales there.

01:13:16.602 --> 01:13:20.552
I'm, I'm genuinely interested in, you know, kind of the market and what they're

01:13:20.552 --> 01:13:23.682
doing and specific pain points and where those improvements can be had.

01:13:23.682 --> 01:13:28.798
But yeah, you know, again, the website managememberships.com and John at managememberships.com.

01:13:30.430 --> 01:13:34.082
Oh yeah, man. All right. So you guys got it there. Go check him out.

01:13:34.082 --> 01:13:36.002
This has been Fires Drinking Coffee.

01:13:36.802 --> 01:13:42.045
Remember to like, subscribe, rate, review five stars. That's the big one.

01:13:43.137 --> 01:13:46.328
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