Why Does BJJ Look Down on Hobbyists? (And Why We Shouldn't) A Brutally Honest Talk (Episode 70)

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Welcome back to Fighters Drinking Coffee. We are your hosts,

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Michael Sutherland and...

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And Scott Dance. With a combined 40 years of grappling experience,

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we are going to try to make you guys' training easier. Jiu-jitsu.

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Yeah. We did it hard, so you don't have to. Easier and better. Easier and better.

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So today.

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I was going to save this for Combat Confessions, um,

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but i think i think it would be a good just general topic so i wanted to i figure

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we'll just make this whole episode of combat confession i guess we'll do combat

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confessions at the beginning here guys um we're gonna keep this listener anonymous blue belt,

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well and here's the question and i quote well why is it that in the bjj community.

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It seems to look down on people who don't compete. Like, it's a genuine question.

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In my experience in other arts, martial arts, guys, there's never been a distinction

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of hobbyist, and they still have a sport angle to them.

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But BJJ definitely seems to have that vibe.

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My theory is that it bleeds over from the wrestlers that only compete.

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That's all. That's the question.

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Let me know what you think. um so just just to add a little framing for you on this scott uh,

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this guy does other martial arts as well so he had done like he has a history

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of doing martial arts and um,

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and i'm assuming what he means by the distinction of hobby is not existing but

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they still have a sport angle would be that you know the the art itself has

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like a competitive aspect there is competition I get it.

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Yeah. Um, but you know, people still do it just to do the art.

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Um, one of the things that he said is in every other discipline,

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they just call it a practitioner or students.

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Like everyone is just called a practitioner or a student of the art.

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Right. Like, which I mean, I think that's, I think that is a,

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a good observation, right? Like we definitely in jujitsu.

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Those terms do get like thrown around. Yeah. There's some smoke.

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Yeah. Where there's smoke, there's fire. He's not wrong. Yeah.

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It's a valid observation. Yeah. And so let's talk about like that.

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One, the division, right? Like there is kind of a separation there.

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And the, I don't know, like just being, I don't know, that derogatory use of the term hobbyist.

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Like people, there definitely is a group that looks down upon people who do

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it for fun, I guess. Right.

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And I don't know, maybe, maybe sometimes we come off that way.

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I'm not sure. I hope not. But yeah. It's not the intention. Yeah, it's not the intention.

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But yeah, so like, let's, you weigh in and then we'll talk.

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I guess my, I like you, when I read the question, I was like,

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yeah, this is actually a really good thread.

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Because there's something to it.

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And I guess my initial reaction statement or whatever would be to kind of like define the issue.

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And my take on that is that, one, I think he's right.

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I think there are people who do that, who look down on hobbyists,

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so to speak. And I think it comes from taking a couple steps back.

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I mean a combination of things but there's we've talked about this lots of time

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there is like any martial art for that matter but it's present in jiu jitsu

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as well as other arts there's the,

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there's the hierarchical and status of.

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Presence, I suppose, of like those just exist and they're very present and in

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your face and jujitsu like like probably like other martial arts.

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Now, as I'm saying this, I'm kind of starting to think about a little bit of

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like social media, too, which kind of like there's this I think all derives

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from like weird ego stuff that,

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kind of just inevitably develops in an environment where there's like eyeballs

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and exposure and people are searching for validation to be respected within

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a hierarchy of within within like an environment where it's like no like,

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i'm not just a blue belt i'm a competitor blue belt yeah so like respect me

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more yeah i i the social media thing so like i i did i responded to him a little bit on that i was like,

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i think there's the the term validation that you said is good um,

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there's definitely,

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like a desire in jiu-jitsu to be seen yes and i think social media because like

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a lot of other martial arts and this might just be my algorithm so i might be wrong on this,

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don't necessarily.

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There's not like that they don't do they're not trying to be a big sport the

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same way that like jiu-jitsu is trying to be a watched tv sport like,

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as a as a greater community like jiu-jitsu is trying to be,

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something popular trying to be popular yeah this is like high school stuff so

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like the social media aspect of it is really big and like hey what gets views,

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competing what else gets views you know like,

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being kind of a dickwad gets you views like you know so So I think a lot of that, I think the.

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That like derogatory use of

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it comes more so from just like what is being shown um you know it's like.

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I don't know it's like not most people aren't fucking shredded to the gills

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and on roids in the world but you'll see a shit ton of that on social media because that's what,

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that's what they want to put in front of you um so i think i think a little

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bit of it is or at least the perceived prevalence like the,

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it seems like there's more of like a hatred towards the hobbyist and there really

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is you know what i mean that's a little intense but i get what you're saying yeah um,

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like i think sneering i think less people look down upon it than it appears

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yeah of course and like it's not as bad as,

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from our i would say it's not as bad i hope it's not as bad well yeah i would

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hope so and like you know obviously this dude feels like it is so,

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he brings up a fair question yeah so like i mean there there probably is some

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other like institutional things to adjust there um,

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but you know like i i think that is one side of it is we're probably seeing

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a more like a greater amount of it because,

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that's what sells right like that's we're trying to push jiu-jitsu competition as,

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a great as the greater jiu-jitsu community because that's what we have to show

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um some of these some other martial arts are olympic sports we aren't like jiu-jitsu

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isn't an olympic sport so like there's.

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We're trying to create something so that we can be seen and that might be you know that might be,

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causing like a slight schism because of the goal of it whereas other martial

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arts hey we're already being seen we're on the international world stage in olympics,

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like we don't have to we don't have to push this anymore we're already there

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so there might be a little bit of that as well um i i hadn't thought of that that's actually,

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a pretty excuse me that's a pretty uh,

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keen observation to like the entire community is like trying to be popular yeah

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the whole thing like this that i hear this and it's kind of like there's like

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a weird popularity contest going on and in the realm of jiu-jitsu which is true,

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um and i think i actually think it kind of hit the nail on the head there and

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like these people are unfortunately just casualties of that war yeah for jiu-jitsu

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to wanting to be popular and wanting to be respected. And like you said, on the world stage.

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It's made some gains and the UFC is doing BJJ now like so like yeah and that's

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that's in there that's pretty big they're really making pushes so outside of

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the well so for those who aren't,

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for those of you who aren't in the competition circles uh they are opening you

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know they're doing the UFC BJJ opens and stuff like there which is kind of funny

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because they shat on ADCC and IBJJF's,

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tournament open open tournament system like right after they opened um and now

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they're doing the same thing because I was like a fighter paid like oh you're

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having these guys do these things

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you're not paying them and then they go and do it too so you know UFC,

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uh but they're also like,

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they're putting more money into it they're actually hiring people to help run

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those like they have like,

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a UFC BJJ like operations manager posts up right now or like hey like we need

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people who've done jiu-jitsu have experience at tournaments have experience like

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matchmaking all this kind of stuff so like they're legit like it's a good sign

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investing in this yeah so you know,

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it's it's working to work it's working like i said casualties of war um but

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it is working and that ultimately is a good thing um i do think,

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as someone who's been in this sport for a long time when it was not popular

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um it is cool to see that it's kind of,

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i i it looks like it's kind of breaking through which is really nice um but

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back to this dude's question.

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Yeah like i mean if i can kind of i guess drill a little bit more into that

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like hierarchy identity ego uh triumvirate of like,

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individual behaviors that leads towards your casual student feeling a little,

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isolated or picked on in the high school popularity contest that is the world that we are in um,

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It is, he's, I mean, he's right to be like, what is this stuff?

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Like, why, this is silly. And he's, and it is silly.

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I would like to approach this from two perspectives, bro. And obviously just,

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I would say that, that thread, this is what I hear.

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I mean, let's talk about whatever we both think should be talked about.

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But I think that is the, in my opinion, like the root of it is like this weird

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ego thing that everyone's, everyone in jujitsu is trying so hard to like,

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well, part of it is because, let's just get into it.

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I was going to say the other aspect of this is I want to get to like why I think

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competing, why I think people do this. And there's like some merit to like.

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People having pride in competing. We should talk about that.

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There's merit to it. And I'll explain why. And I think it's,

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it's based on like there being value there.

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It doesn't undermine hobby, hobbyist training, but like, I get it.

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It just needs to be like, it's sort of like, Hey, like have some pride, but like be like,

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wear it with a little bit of decorum yeah you know what i mean you don't act

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like an like an asshole about it like and we'll come back to that but on the

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hierarchy thing and on the ego thing like i think it's,

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when you go into this sport and you go into like you go into a gym and maybe

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that maybe there is like we talked on the social media maybe there's some of

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that too where it's like you see this like amplified on social media because

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that's also just the way social media social media is one big high school popularity contest

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by its very nature thus the,

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the copious amounts of anxiety and mental disorders that people develop from

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being on social media nonstop.

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So anyways, we're not going to solve that, but that's just, I'm just saying

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that's inherently part of the social media realm, but nonetheless,

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um, walking into a jujitsu gym.

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It's like you, you, you, the, like the whole thing, the whole experience is

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like an ego battle for every person in, in, you know, maybe in any martial art,

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but like, we'll just keep it to what we know, BJJ.

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And that's what this question is about. But you go in and like whatever,

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wherever, like your emotional maturity level is, like it's still going to be tested.

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Like maybe you're like a pretty like humble person and like,

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that's very good going into this environment. Maybe you're not.

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And like you're just gonna have to like battle it out with like people who are

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have, everyone's gonna have that like ego, individual internal ego struggle,

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in a martial arts environment where like you just kind of get like,

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you go and you get beat up, dude.

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And like whatever version of yourself you thought existed, like how tough you

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were or whatever, like it's just gonna be tested the more you do it.

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So like everyone has that, everyone has to handle that learning process in the

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martial arts room, which is a good thing.

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But the other side of that is like, you'll literally observe how people handle

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that all around you all the time.

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And most people handle it very well, in my opinion. Like we've,

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you know, community stuff, we've talked about it lots of times.

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Like most people handle this pretty well.

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And there's gonna be some weirdos who kind of like flaunt their identity.

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And that's, in my opinion, like exposure into like their mind.

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It's sort of like that when someone does what this guy's talking about,

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cool move to tell just trying to make sure my screen stays on that was pretty sweet um.

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When someone does that, when they try to, like, status flex, I'm a competitor.

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It's like a cry for validation. So it's like, I would just tell this guy,

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like, if people are doing that, that's their problem.

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Try not to let it faze you. Yeah. I see that stuff all the time.

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All the time. So he is, like, there's something to it. It's.

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I don't know. I've been competing for a long time.

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I hope that I don't do this stuff. I just say all that to say,

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like, I mean, if I could talk to the dude observing this, like,

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just ignore these goofballs. and to the people doing it, like,

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hey, you are, you're, you're cool.

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Well, yeah, I'm going to say, just like, I don't know, maybe I just need to

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be like, hey, like, hey, yeah, you're cool.

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You're a competitor. That's cool, man. Don't like, so, like,

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be cool. And like, part of being cool is not trying to make other people feel

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like they're not cool. Yeah, the cool people don't tell people they're cool.

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Yeah, exactly. Like, you don't have to. Just be cool. Yeah, it's almost cooler not to be popular.

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Yeah, right? Like, if a high school popularity is like, act like you don't care. Yeah.

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Why does everyone like Matthew McConaughey so much? He's maybe the top five

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coolest guys in the world.

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Yeah. He's just chill, bro. He just exudes cool when he's really like,

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you know, I'm not sure he's a really nice guy to talk to, man.

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I don't know. He seems like. You'd be a whole lot cooler if you did.

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Yeah. Like, you know, like, just do it. And don't, like, try to,

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like, push your coolness on other people as, like, an expression or a way of

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trying to feel more cool. Yeah, like, that's a good point, too, is, like, the people.

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If someone is looking down upon you because you do this sport for fun,

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um, it's probably their insecurity. That's what it is.

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And that's, you know, that's yeah. Like that's silly. They're,

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they're projecting their insecurity on you because they are insecure themselves. Yeah.

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Yeah. And, but also part of that is.

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There's everyone does this for different reasons that's true and so like there's

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people that competition is why they do it like that's how that's how they understand

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some sometimes it's in you know the party said about the wrestling thing right like,

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i don't think it's fair to wrestling i don't know about wrestling i don't know

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enough about wrestling to even weigh in on that but like the identity of wrestling

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is like this it competition is a big part of it's a sport I, I, I,

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yeah, like I don't know if I do that for fun for the most part.

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I don't know anyone who's ever

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done it. Well, I mean like I've done it for fun. Sure, sure, sure, sure.

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But you're, you're right. Like it just seems like the whole reason to wrestle

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is to do it as a sport. Yeah.

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It's like, it's like, yeah, maybe, maybe some people out there and like you,

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you certainly could do this, but there are probably people out there who've

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just done it for exercise because it's phenomenal exercise, but you're right.

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It's like, it's, it's built for competing. Yeah.

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And like, you know, it seems that way. They might have, they might shift to

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it, but a lot, like a lot of people that pick up wrestling start competing in

00:16:28.312 --> 00:16:32.222
wrestling it's just it is ingrained in how you practice it like all of that

00:16:32.222 --> 00:16:35.721
it's just and so um some of that.

00:16:36.946 --> 00:16:41.382
Ideology does exist in people that come to jiu-jitsu because like well if i'm

00:16:41.382 --> 00:16:45.822
gonna do this i'm gonna go i'm gonna go compete and there might be a little

00:16:45.822 --> 00:16:51.503
bit of bleed over because you know it's we're hell especially now right like,

00:16:52.054 --> 00:16:55.582
people don't understand that people can have different values and be like,

00:16:55.582 --> 00:16:59.422
hey, like, well, I do it for competition, why don't you? You know, like, and so...

00:16:59.842 --> 00:17:02.439
Yeah, force their worldview on someone. And, like...

00:17:03.442 --> 00:17:07.260
And I can also see, because like we both do a thing where, you know,

00:17:07.260 --> 00:17:12.167
we recommend competing as like, hey, I recommend you do this because it will,

00:17:12.812 --> 00:17:15.639
it will make you better at jujitsu.

00:17:16.086 --> 00:17:19.780
But I don't think someone's a lesser person. Hell, there's people that never

00:17:19.780 --> 00:17:24.740
compete that whoop ass on the mats. Yeah, that's great. That's right.

00:17:24.740 --> 00:17:26.490
You know, and they're still great.

00:17:27.430 --> 00:17:33.290
You don't have to go out and compete. I will, I will try to encourage you to compete.

00:17:33.290 --> 00:17:38.020
But like, I don't think you're, you know, I don't think they're a lesser because

00:17:38.020 --> 00:17:42.020
they do it or they don't do it. You know, I don't think someone's better because

00:17:42.020 --> 00:17:45.150
they compete. I think it's cool, but that's just because I like to compete.

00:17:45.562 --> 00:17:48.070
But I don't think someone not doing it is a problem. I think,

00:17:48.070 --> 00:17:51.830
I think this is a good way to segue maybe over, I mean, probably weave back

00:17:51.830 --> 00:17:57.619
and forth on, on the, on the two, like the internal ego struggle that causes these, these,

00:17:58.571 --> 00:18:05.460
insecurity exposure instances that elicits the the comment but what i wanted

00:18:05.460 --> 00:18:08.770
to say about competing why i think why i get and this would be like back to

00:18:08.770 --> 00:18:12.294
what i was saying a second ago about like someone who does compete someone who does compete,

00:18:13.142 --> 00:18:16.770
and if they're doing some of this like sneering at other people who aren't.

00:18:17.950 --> 00:18:21.870
Tell them not to do that it's like that nonetheless coming back to the point

00:18:21.870 --> 00:18:25.260
like the reason why we we espouse competing and compete ourselves is because

00:18:25.260 --> 00:18:29.050
i i'm in my opinion And I think it's one of the best ways to get the most out of the martial art.

00:18:29.050 --> 00:18:31.280
And to your point, like when you see someone who's really good on the mat and

00:18:31.280 --> 00:18:33.633
you, I encourage these guys nonstop.

00:18:34.538 --> 00:18:38.220
It's cause I, in my opinion, like I think it's like, it's the best route to

00:18:38.220 --> 00:18:41.945
get the, to gain the most value out of this experience.

00:18:42.398 --> 00:18:46.171
And I think it's like where there's potential, you can go maximize your potential by competing.

00:18:46.635 --> 00:18:50.230
Um, I think it's, and for people who have the talent and the ability and the,

00:18:50.370 --> 00:18:53.201
and the dedication and the discipline in the training room who are really,

00:18:53.665 --> 00:18:56.411
really bad-ass, it's okay, man, like just so you know, like.

00:18:58.019 --> 00:19:00.341
You could get a little bit more out of this if you want it. If you want,

00:19:00.573 --> 00:19:01.415
I'm going to make you do it.

00:19:01.902 --> 00:19:06.442
But there's potential to be gained from,

00:19:07.435 --> 00:19:11.362
your talents and your abilities that you should really think about expressing

00:19:11.362 --> 00:19:16.132
that in like a higher stakes environment where you might get even better.

00:19:16.132 --> 00:19:17.239
You will get even better.

00:19:17.692 --> 00:19:23.532
So yes, like that's, I, and I think, and by the way, like we talk about this

00:19:23.532 --> 00:19:26.222
nonstop and I hope we talk about it in a mature way. I think we do, but.

00:19:26.842 --> 00:19:31.740
We try. we try um just we'll go on the record and say we don't think

00:19:31.983 --> 00:19:35.172
yeah we don't look down on hobby yeah we don't look down on people we both also

00:19:35.172 --> 00:19:38.482
coach and appreciate and have been around hobbyists like so we like have like

00:19:38.482 --> 00:19:42.012
like i'd like to think a pretty i've got my ass kicked by people who don't compete

00:19:42.012 --> 00:19:46.176
plenty of times yeah and that's cool like we like no big deal man like it's like

00:19:46.611 --> 00:19:50.832
we appreciate and like we we want like look the competitors need good training

00:19:50.832 --> 00:19:52.799
environments um and you want like,

00:19:53.462 --> 00:19:56.372
if you look if you can go to a training environment where literally everyone

00:19:56.372 --> 00:20:01.066
competes like that's great but like that's not most places so you need good,

00:20:01.716 --> 00:20:06.632
hard-working hobbyist people will use that label um to be present in the room

00:20:06.632 --> 00:20:08.908
to like make everyone better so it's like that it's kind of like,

00:20:09.742 --> 00:20:13.622
it's a little like self-defeating to like be rude to to hobbyists if you're

00:20:13.622 --> 00:20:16.312
a competitor to like you know why would you want to make that person feel isolated

00:20:16.312 --> 00:20:19.554
and small and and not valued when like yo dude like.

00:20:21.608 --> 00:20:24.628
You need good training partners. You should be appreciative of whatever you get.

00:20:25.888 --> 00:20:29.408
Especially if these dudes are willing to, you know. Spend their Saturdays,

00:20:29.408 --> 00:20:32.358
their mornings, their nights, their weekends.

00:20:32.358 --> 00:20:35.408
They're showing up. They're willing to, you know, bang.

00:20:35.408 --> 00:20:40.158
They're willing to do some rounds with you. Like, who gives a shit whether they compete?

00:20:40.158 --> 00:20:44.038
I agree. Like, ultimately, like, they're doing the same training you are.

00:20:44.038 --> 00:20:46.468
That's right. They're showing up. They're giving you the work.

00:20:46.468 --> 00:20:51.718
Like it really doesn't matter whether they also go and try to get a medal on,

00:20:51.718 --> 00:20:54.918
on that same Saturday that you do there.

00:20:54.918 --> 00:20:58.438
I mean, really they're giving you a more than you're giving them at that point.

00:20:58.438 --> 00:21:01.808
You know what I mean? Like they're providing you, they're really providing you

00:21:01.808 --> 00:21:06.768
a service as the competitor that, you know, like who gives a shit?

00:21:07.428 --> 00:21:09.958
Who gives a shit is the answer. You don't need, you don't need to go.

00:21:09.958 --> 00:21:14.400
Like if you only want to be surrounded by competitors, go be surrounded by competitors. That's fine.

00:21:14.724 --> 00:21:20.268
Like there's gyms that do that. But, you know, it's sometimes you need those other guys. You do.

00:21:20.988 --> 00:21:24.978
You always need those other guys. And so I think you said something that was

00:21:24.978 --> 00:21:27.838
really valid, like really useful too earlier about like people have different

00:21:27.838 --> 00:21:29.473
values and they train for different reasons.

00:21:29.908 --> 00:21:34.598
And what i would tell the the egotistical competitor who's kind of like struggling

00:21:34.598 --> 00:21:38.668
with their maturity journey to like learn basic human interaction skills and

00:21:38.668 --> 00:21:44.833
not make someone feel small and lesser than um would be.

00:21:46.104 --> 00:21:53.581
Like number one i guess i i get the pride and like um i get where the ego would come from from that,

00:21:54.260 --> 00:21:58.348
um i don't think it's the most mature way to handle it i get the ego because

00:21:58.348 --> 00:22:01.878
like you do get like more value in my opinion we just like steel man the position

00:22:01.878 --> 00:22:03.188
a little bit like i i get that that,

00:22:04.175 --> 00:22:06.958
there's a little more grit there's a little more like testing yourself publicly

00:22:06.958 --> 00:22:10.410
like okay but like like just be mature about it like wear it with pride and,

00:22:13.666 --> 00:22:17.700
You, you should, it's an individual thing.

00:22:17.944 --> 00:22:20.388
What we do is individual. That's what I think you, what I was hearing from what

00:22:20.388 --> 00:22:22.678
you were saying about people's value systems, like what you train because you

00:22:22.678 --> 00:22:25.798
want to be a good competitor, right? And for all the reasons you just said, like,

00:22:26.976 --> 00:22:31.413
like the resources of like your friends who are also training partners those

00:22:31.413 --> 00:22:32.683
are two important things to talk about,

00:22:33.385 --> 00:22:37.523
who may be hobbyists who help you do that like why would you why would you alienate

00:22:37.523 --> 00:22:40.743
that person number one but like number two like like you said like they're they're

00:22:40.743 --> 00:22:45.169
just playing a different game than you and like you you should care about,

00:22:46.301 --> 00:22:52.170
your game and what that means to you and not how it it's like a weird like um,

00:22:52.820 --> 00:22:56.733
comparison thing that i think that's like it's an insecurity thing that we talked

00:22:56.733 --> 00:22:58.892
about you already that we labeled it but like,

00:22:59.397 --> 00:23:03.183
why compare yourself to that person or and like you want to make them feel small

00:23:03.183 --> 00:23:07.843
i don't get it i just don't get it one you don't do it on on like you know.

00:23:09.027 --> 00:23:14.356
Jujitsu is unique compared to some of these other martial arts in the aspect that,

00:23:15.349 --> 00:23:21.163
the grading and hierarchy is purely based a lot you know, in most,

00:23:21.483 --> 00:23:27.073
most gyms is based on that person's struggle and journey with themselves, right?

00:23:27.073 --> 00:23:33.563
Like it's more about that person becoming the best jujitsu, you know,

00:23:33.563 --> 00:23:36.043
jujitsu practitioner that they can become.

00:23:36.194 --> 00:23:41.406
And so, you know, your journey as a competitor is going to be vastly different than this person's.

00:23:41.726 --> 00:23:47.235
And so, you know, then a person who is a hobbyist, someone who's doing this for enjoyment or as,

00:23:48.216 --> 00:23:55.103
you know maybe they're doing it because doing this thing is it's difficult for them to go in every day,

00:23:55.723 --> 00:24:00.151
and do this it's every every practice is hard every and

00:24:00.592 --> 00:24:05.513
them showing up and doing that is that's their competition a competition for

00:24:05.513 --> 00:24:08.193
them that's their challenge that's a challenging thing for them to do and if

00:24:08.193 --> 00:24:11.903
they can do that consistently for 10 years awesome give them a black belt that

00:24:11.903 --> 00:24:14.863
might as well you know that's that's their world championship. That's right.

00:24:15.203 --> 00:24:19.893
Whereas someone else were like, they might be, they might have competed in other

00:24:19.893 --> 00:24:25.813
sports their whole life or they're just naturally gifted and they can almost just.

00:24:27.026 --> 00:24:33.765
Go out there and just fight it out and showing up to practice isn't hard for them yeah right like,

00:24:34.566 --> 00:24:38.838
if showing up to practice is already hard why would why would you put that additional

00:24:38.838 --> 00:24:43.268
stress on yourself to show up to have to like go to this other thing in another

00:24:43.268 --> 00:24:48.475
place you're not like so you know it's that's something that you have to be,

00:24:49.154 --> 00:24:51.221
you have to be cognizant of as,

00:24:51.987 --> 00:24:55.784
the person on the competitive side also let your coach be the one that tries to get people to compete,

00:24:56.329 --> 00:25:00.558
i understand like there's some blurring of lines because of the hierarchy right

00:25:00.558 --> 00:25:04.021
like a pro belt might be like yo you should really you should really try it out sometime,

00:25:04.561 --> 00:25:07.368
but you know like let the let the coach be the coach,

00:25:07.828 --> 00:25:10.878
there's a different you know well i would say like if someone doing that's more

00:25:10.878 --> 00:25:14.018
encouraging rather than someone saying like well you know like you're just a

00:25:14.018 --> 00:25:17.488
hobbyist i'm a competitor like that's different there's people can detect when

00:25:17.488 --> 00:25:21.712
like someone's trying to encourage someone versus when they're trying to cut them down yeah and,

00:25:22.217 --> 00:25:24.731
but but point taken yeah i get what you're saying,

00:25:25.456 --> 00:25:28.878
it is it's it's an individual thing and like you said people are playing different

00:25:28.878 --> 00:25:31.041
games for different reasons and that's fine,

00:25:32.022 --> 00:25:37.268
and that that's yeah so like just don't be a weird bully yeah you know.

00:25:38.343 --> 00:25:41.658
There's there's enough like there's enough bullies in life already you don't

00:25:41.658 --> 00:25:44.148
become one yourself maybe you got into this because you were bullied and you're

00:25:44.148 --> 00:25:51.753
just again exposing your your emotional journey this is my chance uh i i think there might also be,

00:25:52.659 --> 00:25:55.491
kind of in a similar vein there.

00:25:56.339 --> 00:26:03.421
I think there's also a, um, aspect of this where like jujitsu didn't,

00:26:03.700 --> 00:26:08.308
it used to be a fucking weird thing, right? Like used to be a weirdo.

00:26:09.108 --> 00:26:13.538
If you did jujitsu, like weirdos did jujitsu before. And now they still do.

00:26:13.568 --> 00:26:17.828
And they still do topic for another. That is definitely an episode in and of

00:26:17.828 --> 00:26:19.784
itself. Fun topic. But like,

00:26:21.608 --> 00:26:25.969
Cool people didn't do jiu-jitsu. Well, they did, but, like, that wasn't – like,

00:26:25.969 --> 00:26:30.536
now jiu-jitsu is kind of a cool – It wasn't popular. Yeah, it's now a popular and cool thing to do.

00:26:31.029 --> 00:26:37.183
And that also, like, like we said, you know, people doing it for validation.

00:26:37.328 --> 00:26:40.139
Like, they're not doing it and want validation. They're doing it because,

00:26:40.139 --> 00:26:43.469
like, this is a cool thing to do. Validate me. Mm-hmm.

00:26:44.249 --> 00:26:47.919
And so there might – there's also a little bit of that, you know,

00:26:47.919 --> 00:26:49.872
back to reasons people do this –,

00:26:51.009 --> 00:26:55.067
is there might be people that show do it.

00:26:56.605 --> 00:27:00.759
It doesn't matter whether or not they're good at competing this is just to they

00:27:00.759 --> 00:27:04.409
might just compete to say they're a competitor right like that that also gets

00:27:04.409 --> 00:27:08.796
created so that is their identity within jiu-jitsu not like oh like.

00:27:10.259 --> 00:27:15.699
I show up i train i'm nasty at this i also compete it's like no like i i'm a

00:27:15.699 --> 00:27:19.209
competitor that's what i that's who i am Yeah.

00:27:19.209 --> 00:27:21.459
That is the only thing that they are.

00:27:21.899 --> 00:27:25.329
And so for them, like that is their, you know, if that becomes their whole entire

00:27:25.329 --> 00:27:29.939
identity, well, how do I use this to be cooler than this person?

00:27:30.479 --> 00:27:34.709
Right. You know, cause like the reason they're doing this is for status versus

00:27:34.709 --> 00:27:37.519
like, you know, self development.

00:27:37.519 --> 00:27:40.489
Yeah. Like the reason, the reason that we do it.

00:27:40.489 --> 00:27:42.729
Right. Like we've talked about, we talked about on the why episode,

00:27:42.729 --> 00:27:45.609
like we want to be the best, you want to be the best version of yourself.

00:27:45.609 --> 00:27:49.145
That's right. I want to be the best version of myself. Like it's not about being,

00:27:49.679 --> 00:27:52.889
outside of like when i'm competing the better i want to be better than that

00:27:52.889 --> 00:27:56.939
person yeah you want to win but i don't i don't need to be better than anybody like i'm not,

00:27:57.399 --> 00:28:00.709
a i'm not a better person because i compete that's you know what i mean like

00:28:00.709 --> 00:28:07.372
100 better than somebody else as a human being because i compete right um you know like that's just,

00:28:08.319 --> 00:28:11.819
it's like you said it's a silly projection it is it is it's exposing the ego

00:28:12.159 --> 00:28:17.124
and like uh the insecurity quite a bit and um yeah it's not like,

00:28:17.989 --> 00:28:21.344
that person's clearly struggling for,

00:28:22.110 --> 00:28:28.279
to attain coolness i guess popularity status um and for whatever reason they

00:28:28.279 --> 00:28:34.649
feel the need to like suppress someone else's status as a result um which is not cool,

00:28:35.399 --> 00:28:38.559
yeah that ain't cool don't you want to be cool.

00:28:39.659 --> 00:28:41.075
Uh yeah it's.

00:28:42.195 --> 00:28:43.577
Yeah i think we covered it but but.

00:28:45.945 --> 00:28:49.361
Yeah, it's if we could just the call to action, perhaps for everyone is like,

00:28:49.361 --> 00:28:54.130
just like stick to your journey. Like you're going to meet goofballs in life. It's going to happen.

00:28:54.357 --> 00:28:57.331
Who do this? And I bet you'll meet goofballs doing that. Another other weird

00:28:57.331 --> 00:29:00.771
hierarchies and ecosystems, too. And it's just like it's like running to a goof,

00:29:00.771 --> 00:29:03.047
a knucklehead. And you're like, yeah, cool.

00:29:03.911 --> 00:29:09.961
Yeah, that's pretty cool. You are very cool. Now, that's what that person really wants. Yes.

00:29:10.181 --> 00:29:13.891
Now, to maybe put a little twist on this.

00:29:15.631 --> 00:29:18.921
Twisted up Mike to maybe you know

00:29:18.921 --> 00:29:27.641
like I think there's also a possibility because I know I know this person.

00:29:29.951 --> 00:29:37.401
There's also a possibility that it's the way that they're what he's saying is

00:29:37.401 --> 00:29:40.343
I think there is an issue with this,

00:29:41.411 --> 00:29:45.167
it does exist in, I don't think it's as big of an issue as it might seem.

00:29:46.271 --> 00:29:50.001
You know, like we said, it's being, it's being, it's being, I've seen it.

00:29:50.001 --> 00:29:53.331
I don't think it's, I don't think it's a huge, I mean, in the world that I'm

00:29:53.331 --> 00:29:56.331
involved in, I don't think it's a massive issue, but. Yeah, but it definitely exists.

00:29:56.531 --> 00:29:58.031
But there's something to it. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. It definitely exists.

00:29:58.031 --> 00:29:59.511
I've already talked about it for about 40 minutes.

00:29:59.906 --> 00:30:02.711
But I just, just to, just to throw a little wrench or like, you know,

00:30:02.711 --> 00:30:06.848
maybe twist this a little bit because I know he listens. So maybe he'll,

00:30:07.631 --> 00:30:09.995
this is more, this is, I'm talking directly to him.

00:30:10.471 --> 00:30:18.661
Um, maybe the reason or maybe a reason that someone might take it as a derogatory

00:30:18.661 --> 00:30:22.990
term is maybe they've had that taste of competition.

00:30:23.576 --> 00:30:30.188
They actually want to do it, but maybe they don't necessarily agree.

00:30:31.832 --> 00:30:38.589
Enjoy it completely right like competing in and of itself isn't something that like they're,

00:30:40.098 --> 00:30:43.516
it's not like they don't like immediately want to do it it's not like it's not

00:30:43.516 --> 00:30:47.046
like you know it is an uncomfortable situation yeah oh it's uncomfortable and

00:30:47.046 --> 00:30:50.408
it's super stressful and you know like whatever but,

00:30:51.783 --> 00:30:55.216
they they also kind of feel like they want you know like there's a little bit

00:30:55.576 --> 00:30:59.756
there's an angst there so when they hear the term hobbyist they're they feel

00:30:59.756 --> 00:31:03.481
jabbed it feels a little jab because they're like no like but i i've done it

00:31:03.631 --> 00:31:06.139
or i i kind of do want to compete,

00:31:06.743 --> 00:31:10.636
and that's this is an interesting twist and so like i think they're also from

00:31:10.636 --> 00:31:16.086
you know to flip it while i don't think that it is a non-existent thing because

00:31:16.086 --> 00:31:17.911
absolutely people use the term,

00:31:18.607 --> 00:31:23.298
try as a way to try to like attack other people but maybe,

00:31:24.093 --> 00:31:28.185
on an individual level if you are taking offense to it.

00:31:29.716 --> 00:31:33.538
When it's not intentionally being used that way. Okay. I'm with it so far. Yeah.

00:31:34.966 --> 00:31:37.836
Got a little thought exercise here. Yeah. I mean, it's... Yeah,

00:31:37.836 --> 00:31:39.356
this is good. I'm tossing it out there.

00:31:39.556 --> 00:31:41.726
Bro, this is good because I think you're onto something here and I already think

00:31:41.726 --> 00:31:43.789
I have a response to it. Yeah. And so, like, maybe...

00:31:44.677 --> 00:31:47.756
Maybe you want to compete. That's where you... I like this. You might not necessarily

00:31:47.756 --> 00:31:50.946
be ready at this very moment. And so, like, right now, you're like,

00:31:50.946 --> 00:31:51.701
I'm not going to compete.

00:31:51.997 --> 00:31:55.045
I'm not going to compete coming up or... But, like, you know...

00:31:56.316 --> 00:31:59.666
You want to do it. And you got a taste for it and you like it,

00:31:59.666 --> 00:32:03.136
but you kind of don't like that you like it, you know?

00:32:04.276 --> 00:32:06.406
You don't want to lose. You're a little nervous. You're uncomfortable.

00:32:06.406 --> 00:32:09.796
Yeah, and like maybe you're a little unsure of yourself. Maybe, you know...

00:32:11.732 --> 00:32:20.202
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00:32:20.382 --> 00:32:24.294
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00:32:36.931 --> 00:32:39.761
review. Now back to the show.

00:32:42.992 --> 00:32:48.161
So maybe you competed at the belt level below and now you're looking at competing

00:32:48.161 --> 00:32:51.621
at the next rank up right and you're like oh that's a little daunting bro because

00:32:51.621 --> 00:32:54.956
i mean it is that's fucking scary i get it and you know,

00:32:56.461 --> 00:33:00.741
maybe that's so okay so i like a little i like this i like this so we're flipping

00:33:00.741 --> 00:33:03.838
around the unmet so what you're saying if i'm hearing you correctly is like

00:33:04.151 --> 00:33:07.611
flipping this around a little bit like if the person's offended or feels the

00:33:07.611 --> 00:33:09.949
jab that could be an exposure of like hey maybe there's some.

00:33:11.650 --> 00:33:15.943
Maybe there's a little bit of unmet potential flipping it around on that person

00:33:15.943 --> 00:33:19.343
that like there's an interest in doing it, but like a perhaps a barrier to that

00:33:19.343 --> 00:33:22.952
guy or gal wanting to do it because,

00:33:23.602 --> 00:33:27.921
and thus, like you said, the reaction to it is because I'm not just a hobbyist. Yeah.

00:33:29.082 --> 00:33:31.893
But I haven't been competing. Yeah, there's some angst there.

00:33:31.893 --> 00:33:33.326
I mean, I know people like this.

00:33:34.011 --> 00:33:40.563
This is valid. Yeah. observed this too um where perhaps that person feels that

00:33:40.563 --> 00:33:43.589
slight because they know they could do it,

00:33:44.466 --> 00:33:48.813
oh yeah they know they could do it and they might do well if they went down

00:33:48.813 --> 00:33:53.992
that path uh but they're perhaps choosing not to and there's an angst there,

00:33:55.173 --> 00:33:59.333
i'm gonna call it unmet potential i don't know what to call it um whatever your

00:33:59.333 --> 00:34:02.163
choice is whether you want to do it or not you want to do it a little bit like

00:34:02.163 --> 00:34:05.675
it's no big deal own it like yeah you don't want to do it's no problem like for that person like,

00:34:06.476 --> 00:34:10.193
don't feel angst like just own your decision but at the same time the call to

00:34:10.193 --> 00:34:13.813
adventure like if you feel it's in your soul somewhere like you should give it a try

00:34:14.197 --> 00:34:17.453
we've talked about this a lot of times students win lose draw it doesn't matter

00:34:17.453 --> 00:34:20.243
like go test yourself go if there's something in you that's calling you to do

00:34:20.243 --> 00:34:22.811
it but like you're struggling with it like maybe give it a try

00:34:23.217 --> 00:34:25.499
uh because it's it's speaking to you in some capacity,

00:34:26.021 --> 00:34:29.863
and i mean do you want to live your life with what ifs or do you want to go

00:34:29.863 --> 00:34:33.853
give it a try I think you should go give it a try. That's, you know, we are on the record.

00:34:34.813 --> 00:34:39.133
We can, yeah, no one, no one ever questioned that. No one will question our, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:34:40.331 --> 00:34:43.500
But that's an interesting observation too. I'm actually glad you brought that up.

00:34:45.387 --> 00:34:48.053
Yeah, maybe there's a little bit of a challenge that person hears and they're

00:34:48.053 --> 00:34:50.253
like, fuck that, man. They're like, fuck you, bro.

00:34:50.633 --> 00:34:52.811
You know what? I could totally compete. I'm offended, but like,

00:34:53.273 --> 00:35:00.242
maybe you're right. We don't know how this person or other people have been confronted with this,

00:35:01.648 --> 00:35:06.162
message, if you want to call it that. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe they're feeling

00:35:06.162 --> 00:35:07.271
it and they weren't picked on.

00:35:07.544 --> 00:35:10.452
We're kind of going into the saying the competitor was picking on the hobbyist.

00:35:10.452 --> 00:35:12.852
Maybe the hobbyist wasn't picked on. The hobbyist was just like, felt this.

00:35:13.232 --> 00:35:17.562
They're hearing it or they're feeling it. No one's directly calling them a hobbyist.

00:35:17.562 --> 00:35:19.183
Why isn't anyone giving me the respect?

00:35:19.404 --> 00:35:25.592
Yeah, maybe. Well, maybe you should go strap on your armor and go out there and try it, man.

00:35:26.457 --> 00:35:30.602
You could do it. You can do it too. Every person who competed started off in

00:35:30.602 --> 00:35:34.272
that position of not being a competitor it's true like if one of them just started

00:35:34.272 --> 00:35:39.732
competing yeah no one's first day was uh was at a competition well most yeah,

00:35:40.312 --> 00:35:42.672
i i think i feel pretty good about saying that i think that's probably,

00:35:43.472 --> 00:35:48.372
at least 99.9 accurate bro yeah it's enough of a rule to have an exception that's

00:35:48.372 --> 00:35:54.872
right yeah oh for sure yeah um and to those guys perhaps it's like hey like give yourself a break

00:35:55.244 --> 00:35:58.192
no one expects you to be perfect when you go and compete for the first serve

00:35:58.192 --> 00:36:00.451
it's been a couple years like just go give it a try.

00:36:01.432 --> 00:36:05.496
People are going to accept you, too, for who you are, no matter what happens.

00:36:05.496 --> 00:36:07.476
Like, your friends, your family, the people who care about you.

00:36:07.476 --> 00:36:10.707
It's like they're still going to care about you. Win, lose, or draw. Like, just get over it.

00:36:11.009 --> 00:36:13.789
And let's go try. Don't be afraid to lose. Yeah.

00:36:14.422 --> 00:36:19.026
I mean, I know the reason I brought that up is because I know that,

00:36:19.026 --> 00:36:22.398
like, if I had some catastrophic injury where I couldn't compete again,

00:36:22.729 --> 00:36:23.704
I would probably feel this way.

00:36:23.855 --> 00:36:27.186
You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, like, watching other people.

00:36:27.186 --> 00:36:30.183
Yeah, exactly. It'd be FOMO about, like, oh, man.

00:36:30.798 --> 00:36:35.639
Well back in my day i used to do i used to be able to do that too yeah yeah for sure um,

00:36:36.104 --> 00:36:40.696
so like i i know like i know i would feel that way yeah yeah life is short we

00:36:40.696 --> 00:36:44.436
can't predict what's going to happen like we you don't know if like some catastrophic

00:36:44.436 --> 00:36:47.096
injury is going to come in your life so like live it up man like go go go,

00:36:47.856 --> 00:36:52.549
you feel it in some capacity some like challenge that and it is a challenge

00:36:52.793 --> 00:36:57.576
it's a challenge to go compete and to try to win and to face losses and to like

00:36:57.576 --> 00:37:00.026
overcome that and try again, like that's a challenge, man.

00:37:00.026 --> 00:37:03.016
It's like, it's why we ask people to do this. That's why we encourage people

00:37:03.016 --> 00:37:04.976
to do this. Cause like, we like, Hey, it's been good for us.

00:37:04.976 --> 00:37:07.490
Like we think it'll be good for you too. Um.

00:37:09.707 --> 00:37:15.959
Yeah, again, we're on the record as to the value, the life lessons you can get from it.

00:37:18.089 --> 00:37:21.779
And if it's in you and you feel it, like, give it a try. Don't,

00:37:21.779 --> 00:37:26.669
you know, like, how nice would it be to go to that competitor after a couple

00:37:26.669 --> 00:37:28.949
tournaments and be like, guess what? I'm a competitor too. Like,

00:37:28.949 --> 00:37:30.819
if that guy was picking on you, like, look at that.

00:37:31.127 --> 00:37:33.089
Now what are you going to say? Have you seen my medals?

00:37:34.109 --> 00:37:37.507
Yeah. Yeah, man. Like, people respect that.

00:37:38.269 --> 00:37:42.509
People respect, like, i i think people respect folks who are willing to kind

00:37:42.509 --> 00:37:46.809
of put their neck on the line yeah go test themselves and like win lose or draw

00:37:46.809 --> 00:37:50.289
kind of own themselves own their identity hold their head up,

00:37:50.922 --> 00:37:55.959
and uh not be fazed by this type of stuff i i i actually think that's probably

00:37:55.959 --> 00:38:01.159
a good point too if someone is picking on you for not competing just fucking

00:38:01.159 --> 00:38:04.545
be like yeah dude i don't compete but like i just don't want to,

00:38:05.381 --> 00:38:11.296
Just tell them that. End of story. They'll probably, they might laugh and say, yeah, good call.

00:38:11.592 --> 00:38:14.508
They might respect that. Fair enough. You know what I mean? I would respect that. Yeah.

00:38:14.508 --> 00:38:17.788
I'd be like, I just, I have no desire to do it.

00:38:17.788 --> 00:38:20.928
I'm good with what I'm doing. I'm having a great time. But if you like wish

00:38:20.928 --> 00:38:24.038
wash back and forth, they, you know, like if you're just like,

00:38:24.038 --> 00:38:27.378
oh, well, like I could, but like maybe I won't or maybe I will.

00:38:27.378 --> 00:38:31.978
Like they might have, you know, that's, that creates a different thing and like

00:38:31.978 --> 00:38:35.747
they might still keep picking on you. Not that they should. Not that they should.

00:38:36.159 --> 00:38:39.288
But, you know, they might just because, like... Well, how about this,

00:38:39.288 --> 00:38:41.368
man? Be certain of yourself, right? Right.

00:38:42.088 --> 00:38:48.343
That person is going... That person who is picking on someone because they're

00:38:48.564 --> 00:38:50.368
an insecure asshole... Yes.

00:38:51.848 --> 00:38:56.488
...is more likely to respect you or leave you. This is now just an anti-bullying

00:38:56.488 --> 00:38:58.488
thing. Now we're talking about high school bullying again. It's a high school

00:38:58.488 --> 00:39:00.478
popularity contest. You know, like, that person's...

00:39:00.568 --> 00:39:04.168
If you just fucking own your shit and tell them to their face,

00:39:04.168 --> 00:39:10.038
Like, I just don't want to, and I'm not going to ever, they're more likely to

00:39:10.038 --> 00:39:11.108
at least leave you alone.

00:39:11.108 --> 00:39:14.498
They might still think the way they do about you, but like. What you're saying

00:39:14.498 --> 00:39:16.028
is bullies will smell weakness. Yeah.

00:39:16.048 --> 00:39:18.481
And if you're wishy-washy, and man.

00:39:18.620 --> 00:39:21.168
They're going to think they can bully you into doing it, right?

00:39:21.588 --> 00:39:24.228
Or just have fun with you because they can tell you're uncertain.

00:39:24.848 --> 00:39:28.398
Yeah, that's an interesting call out too, man. I mean, I'll tell you,

00:39:28.398 --> 00:39:33.028
like, you see this a fair amount as a coach. Like I get people all the time

00:39:33.028 --> 00:39:35.538
for years who've told me like, I want to do it. I don't want to do it.

00:39:35.538 --> 00:39:39.518
I don't want to do it. I think I want to compete. I want to do this. Like, and I, you know,

00:39:40.830 --> 00:39:43.811
part of the job i have the conversation no problem you encourage them where

00:39:43.811 --> 00:39:46.881
they can so people just never they they have a failure to launch they just never

00:39:46.881 --> 00:39:51.953
pull it off because they just whatever there's always a there's always a reason um to not do it,

00:39:52.568 --> 00:39:56.011
and you know you still treat them you know kindly and diplomatically encourage

00:39:56.011 --> 00:39:58.351
them where you can but like at a certain point even i can tell when someone's

00:39:58.351 --> 00:40:00.781
like wishy-washy i'm like i don't think this guy or gal knows what they want

00:40:00.781 --> 00:40:02.435
it's no problem not gonna make them,

00:40:02.882 --> 00:40:05.741
and what my attitude towards that as it relates to like training and coaching

00:40:05.741 --> 00:40:09.171
is like i'll always invite people to like take that step but at a certain point,

00:40:09.171 --> 00:40:11.561
like they have to make that, you can't make that decision for them.

00:40:11.903 --> 00:40:14.486
They have to decide if they're going to do it. Um.

00:40:16.251 --> 00:40:19.534
It's a, I mean, it's kind of a red flag to watch someone be like consistently

00:40:19.534 --> 00:40:21.760
wishy washy. You gotta look out for people like that.

00:40:22.354 --> 00:40:27.356
You know, it's just, it, it, whatever. Um, but that said, like,

00:40:27.553 --> 00:40:30.926
you know, like you can't force that decision on someone kind of just like,

00:40:31.327 --> 00:40:36.134
Hey, there will always be an environment for you to like come and like push yourself.

00:40:36.134 --> 00:40:39.644
But you know, like as someone who's trained with and coached lots of competitors

00:40:39.644 --> 00:40:42.054
and I've, as I've said, like had these conversations, I've had,

00:40:42.054 --> 00:40:44.637
I have people come and ask if they can come train with the competitors sometimes.

00:40:44.945 --> 00:40:49.194
Like our early morning sessions and i have to,

00:40:50.471 --> 00:40:54.853
i have to use my judgment to act to to discern between someone who's,

00:40:55.840 --> 00:41:01.754
serious and wants to in my opinion kind of maintain the like with those sessions

00:41:01.754 --> 00:41:04.971
i'm fairly judicious about who i will,

00:41:05.517 --> 00:41:08.964
um include in that because there's a certain cultural standard of like work

00:41:08.964 --> 00:41:12.518
ethic and discipline and like shared goals and by the way in those sessions

00:41:12.901 --> 00:41:16.285
I have lots of people who don't compete too which is totally fine but they show up.

00:41:18.503 --> 00:41:22.024
They exude the same values as the competitors and therefore they're a great

00:41:22.024 --> 00:41:25.184
person to have that's a call out to good hobbyists like lots of good hobbyists

00:41:25.184 --> 00:41:29.014
to help me with my competitors and train with the competitors and I treat them

00:41:29.014 --> 00:41:31.704
like competitors because they do that but they never want to they never want

00:41:31.704 --> 00:41:33.054
to compete they want to compete every couple years and,

00:41:33.894 --> 00:41:36.730
they're welcome and I love them and I want them there and they know who they are,

00:41:37.674 --> 00:41:40.454
and I've had like and by the way that's a moment of honesty too because those

00:41:40.454 --> 00:41:42.894
guys will tell you they'll be like yeah man I'm like, I compete every couple

00:41:42.894 --> 00:41:44.074
of years, but like, I love being around it.

00:41:44.074 --> 00:41:45.774
I want to be with you. I want to help you guys. I want to support you guys.

00:41:45.774 --> 00:41:46.883
I'm like, dude, you're in. I love you.

00:41:48.288 --> 00:41:51.494
At to contrast that with the person who's like, maybe I will, maybe I won't.

00:41:51.494 --> 00:41:54.524
I'm like, Hey, look, make your decision. What I would, what I usually tell those

00:41:54.524 --> 00:41:58.094
people, I try to like study behavior and patterns and like commitment and say,

00:41:58.094 --> 00:42:01.614
let's, let's see you do some regular stuff in class.

00:42:01.614 --> 00:42:04.624
Like show me that you actually want to be a part of this culture.

00:42:04.624 --> 00:42:07.902
And then I may invite you to come do this. But if you're not,

00:42:09.278 --> 00:42:11.516
And by the way, that's also why I pick, like, 7 a.m. to do these things.

00:42:11.516 --> 00:42:13.136
Because I'm like, let's just see if you'll show up at 7 a.m.

00:42:13.136 --> 00:42:14.076
Yeah, there's a level of.

00:42:14.346 --> 00:42:16.856
I'll often let these guys show up and train. Because, like, these guys will

00:42:16.856 --> 00:42:18.786
still train. It's not bad to have them on the mat. It's just,

00:42:18.786 --> 00:42:22.836
like, the barrier to entry is intentional. See, like, can you stomach a Saturday

00:42:22.836 --> 00:42:26.846
7 a.m. for, like, six months? Yeah. Do you want to be here? Do you really want

00:42:26.846 --> 00:42:28.393
it? Yeah. Do you really want it?

00:42:29.229 --> 00:42:32.536
That's all. Yeah. Because the wishy-washy people, like, they'll drain on you,

00:42:32.536 --> 00:42:34.746
man. Because they'll expect.

00:42:36.764 --> 00:42:41.666
Commitment from you that they're not willing to show. um so and again and again

00:42:41.666 --> 00:42:43.826
there's nothing wrong with that you just have to be you just have to discern

00:42:43.826 --> 00:42:45.129
that and say hey look you know what,

00:42:45.582 --> 00:42:48.646
come anytime you want i'm not expecting you to show up yeah you know because

00:42:48.646 --> 00:42:51.446
you show up like i said i have guys you've done that and like they and when

00:42:51.446 --> 00:42:55.046
they show up it's still great to have them in the room still so valuable um

00:42:55.046 --> 00:42:57.574
thus the 7 a.m's or i'm like you just want to i don't.

00:42:59.666 --> 00:43:02.736
When the time comes and you're ready to kind of like when the it's like when

00:43:02.736 --> 00:43:05.046
the student is ready the master will present himself sort of thing like when

00:43:05.046 --> 00:43:08.306
the time comes and you're ready to like no more excuses let's do this like the,

00:43:08.886 --> 00:43:10.855
the environment already exists but,

00:43:11.570 --> 00:43:14.676
i prefer to have that choice kind of like made by the other person just kind

00:43:14.676 --> 00:43:17.936
of set the barriers to entry such that if they can do it if they can meet it

00:43:17.936 --> 00:43:20.897
they'll just show up and then they'll they'll tell us when they're ready

00:43:21.113 --> 00:43:24.346
yeah and you know what i mean i think that's a good call too like but i had

00:43:24.346 --> 00:43:28.397
to i this is something i take seriously too just if i can finish on this it's like it's that,

00:43:29.048 --> 00:43:35.938
you know like i i in those training environments with guys and gals who like sacrifice time,

00:43:36.762 --> 00:43:40.199
and effort and also money to go travel and compete for this stuff like these guys like,

00:43:40.896 --> 00:43:46.026
um i want them to feel appreciated i want them to feel like their work and their

00:43:46.026 --> 00:43:50.786
sacrifice is honored insofar as maintaining a culture and standard that like

00:43:51.204 --> 00:43:54.646
puts them in a position like they they deserve to be around people,

00:43:55.238 --> 00:43:59.464
um in in those training scenarios that um that push them,

00:44:00.451 --> 00:44:02.750
you know rather than someone who's kind of like given off a,

00:44:04.050 --> 00:44:07.899
A little too casual of a vibe.

00:44:08.102 --> 00:44:10.716
And I just say that to say, that's like for like very like one-off,

00:44:10.716 --> 00:44:13.786
like that's for like certain training environments is not to say that those

00:44:13.786 --> 00:44:16.346
other folks who are kind of wishy-washy aren't welcome in an academy.

00:44:16.346 --> 00:44:18.139
They certainly absolutely are.

00:44:19.701 --> 00:44:23.986
But that's my frame of mind when it comes to like, hey, like this one practice

00:44:23.986 --> 00:44:28.518
is for the guys who are willing to make certain sacrifices.

00:44:30.028 --> 00:44:32.296
If you can show that you're willing to do that, we would like to have you for

00:44:32.296 --> 00:44:35.516
sure. In the meantime, if you're not no big deal there's an entire training

00:44:35.516 --> 00:44:39.455
academy entire curriculum entire class schedule come when you want man yeah

00:44:39.786 --> 00:44:40.697
just like make your mind up,

00:44:41.411 --> 00:44:44.456
yeah decide what decide what path you want to take yeah you don't need to like

00:44:44.456 --> 00:44:47.916
build your path yeah like there's there's some like smoke there's some gears

00:44:47.916 --> 00:44:50.390
turning maybe it's causing smoke with the wishy-washiness but like,

00:44:51.209 --> 00:44:54.686
you know figure that out um i can't figure that out for you,

00:44:55.615 --> 00:45:00.606
make that decision and then and you know we'll be here working we're it's a

00:45:00.606 --> 00:45:03.666
life sentence is what i call it yeah we're we're in it for life so like we will

00:45:03.666 --> 00:45:07.678
be there no matter what someone will be there doing the work um and.

00:45:08.921 --> 00:45:13.472
When you're ready, we'll be there. Come show up. But if you're not, spare me.

00:45:14.215 --> 00:45:17.627
Spare me the, you know. Yeah, we don't need to filter excuses.

00:45:17.747 --> 00:45:23.712
I've encouraged, I can tell you stories about people that you know who I've gone through this with.

00:45:24.867 --> 00:45:29.203
And it's, I mean, it's aggressive to say it's a waste of my time.

00:45:29.441 --> 00:45:31.727
Yeah. But there's a little bit of that, you know, in your head where you're

00:45:31.727 --> 00:45:34.701
like, hey, man, don't, like, I can't make this decision for you.

00:45:35.049 --> 00:45:36.727
Let's not just talk about it nonstop.

00:45:37.267 --> 00:45:39.607
Like, you know, it's a big deal. and maybe some of that is like they're coming

00:45:39.607 --> 00:45:42.407
to me for validation like can you treat me like a competitor it would be feel

00:45:42.407 --> 00:45:46.164
really nice if you did yeah i could do what do you you don't need that validation from me,

00:45:46.658 --> 00:45:50.017
like that that goes back to the individual thing yeah no it's as an individual

00:45:50.017 --> 00:45:55.507
like it's me like you in my opinion that person going through that struggle needs to,

00:45:55.967 --> 00:46:00.527
feel that win themselves me saying i respect you like a competitor like big

00:46:00.527 --> 00:46:02.976
deal who cares what i think in that regard,

00:46:03.591 --> 00:46:07.637
some people maybe do and i and i get that i get that i get that also from the

00:46:07.637 --> 00:46:09.847
position that I'm into is like a head is like a black belt head coach.

00:46:09.867 --> 00:46:14.397
Yeah, they want their their coaches validation. And like I would tell you like

00:46:14.397 --> 00:46:16.977
I accept you for no matter what you are or what you're doing.

00:46:16.977 --> 00:46:18.617
If you're in here and you're a good person, you're training,

00:46:18.617 --> 00:46:22.086
you're upholding basic cultural standards. I already like you.

00:46:22.335 --> 00:46:24.030
Yeah. I already like you.

00:46:24.948 --> 00:46:29.071
And I, and I, and I value you and, um, I don't need you to be a competitor.

00:46:29.071 --> 00:46:32.541
Like I'm like, I might, if you want to be a competitor, I might treat you a

00:46:32.541 --> 00:46:35.241
little differently insofar as like what I expect of you. That's why I said what

00:46:35.241 --> 00:46:38.218
I said. I kind of will a little bit, but that's me. I like you less.

00:46:38.642 --> 00:46:40.641
It doesn't mean I don't think that what you're doing has less value.

00:46:40.641 --> 00:46:44.141
Like, let's, I don't think you're a lesser person. You don't show up to,

00:46:44.141 --> 00:46:47.394
you don't do competition. I don't give a shit. Like some people are just like, Hey bro.

00:46:47.951 --> 00:46:51.691
And by the way, there are tons of competitors who don't want to show up at 7am

00:46:51.691 --> 00:46:54.674
and they'll still be good competitors and they'll still treat them like competitors

00:46:54.859 --> 00:46:58.371
they're just they don't want to come at 7 a.m no big deal they're doing work

00:46:58.371 --> 00:47:01.121
elsewhere on their own time in their own schedule and that's fine as well that's

00:47:01.121 --> 00:47:02.875
made hey if that works for you

00:47:03.218 --> 00:47:05.221
let's go win some competitions no big deal,

00:47:05.767 --> 00:47:09.541
yeah it's not a big deal you might tell that person hey dude if it works for

00:47:09.541 --> 00:47:11.011
you maybe we need to maybe we need to

00:47:11.451 --> 00:47:15.241
maybe do a few extra sessions maybe we do you know depending on the performance

00:47:15.241 --> 00:47:18.771
stuff right sure sure you might be like hey dude i need you to do more that

00:47:18.771 --> 00:47:20.991
that I've had that conversation, and you are right.

00:47:21.611 --> 00:47:24.081
But then there are some people who are just like, hey, look,

00:47:24.081 --> 00:47:26.651
this is working for you. Yeah, don't worry about it.

00:47:26.731 --> 00:47:29.831
Hey, if you're winning and you're doing well as a competitor,

00:47:29.831 --> 00:47:32.435
like, I mean, it's just a different style of coaching, as you know.

00:47:34.107 --> 00:47:38.841
To that person, like, look, if Monday through Friday, 5, 6 p.m.,

00:47:38.841 --> 00:47:41.321
7 p.m., like, is getting you ready and you're winning and you're doing well,

00:47:41.321 --> 00:47:44.751
like, man, like, let's not mess with the process. Let's keep this going.

00:47:44.954 --> 00:47:47.701
But like you said, like, hey, I still have this practice if you ever feel like

00:47:47.701 --> 00:47:49.592
waking up early on Saturday. I would love to have you.

00:47:50.028 --> 00:47:54.370
I think you'd bring a lot of value to the room. It would be valuable for you too. Like, please come.

00:47:54.956 --> 00:47:58.131
But at the same time, like I said, there's no one way to do all this stuff.

00:47:58.131 --> 00:47:59.577
It's highly individualized.

00:48:00.895 --> 00:48:04.784
We accept you. We love you. We want you there.

00:48:06.073 --> 00:48:08.931
You know, you know, and as a guy in this position, like, you know,

00:48:08.931 --> 00:48:12.901
I, I, I appreciate that you respect my opinion on these things.

00:48:12.901 --> 00:48:16.571
And I'm sure you've been to this too. I mean, you had a, like a celebrity moment

00:48:16.571 --> 00:48:18.841
at the gym this morning, we were trying to come up and thank you for a movie

00:48:18.841 --> 00:48:19.725
you taught him. That's cool.

00:48:19.941 --> 00:48:23.061
Like people respect our opinions and there's, that's nice. There's the status

00:48:23.061 --> 00:48:27.225
that we have that comes from that too, which is that's, that's pretty cool. Great. Two thumbs up.

00:48:27.695 --> 00:48:32.056
I'm happy to, to, to, to provide that feedback. And if that,

00:48:32.480 --> 00:48:35.341
I think our feedback is really important i think people appreciate it and i'm

00:48:35.341 --> 00:48:39.345
happy to do it um but i'll caveat that with like.

00:48:41.754 --> 00:48:45.001
My opinion is not the biggest deal in the world too well especially you know

00:48:45.001 --> 00:48:53.201
what i mean especially outside of hey dude you pay us to be your jiu-jitsu coach outside of our like,

00:48:53.909 --> 00:48:59.311
opinions on your on you and your jiu-jitsu you really shouldn't care that much

00:48:59.311 --> 00:49:01.247
that's right Right. Yeah, exactly.

00:49:01.392 --> 00:49:04.161
Exactly. Um, don't, don't like, you know, like, again, like it's sort of like,

00:49:04.161 --> 00:49:08.421
you know, I'm happy to, uh, when, when, if I make a good statement to someone

00:49:08.421 --> 00:49:10.261
that makes their day better, makes them feel better.

00:49:10.741 --> 00:49:12.845
I love it. I've great. I want to do that.

00:49:13.362 --> 00:49:19.701
Um, but if you need my statement to give you that feeling, take a step back.

00:49:19.956 --> 00:49:23.331
Um, cause maybe there's something wrong here. Cause I don't,

00:49:24.751 --> 00:49:25.651
I don't want to be in that position.

00:49:26.191 --> 00:49:29.771
I don't want to be in a position where it's like you you rely on me for that

00:49:29.771 --> 00:49:33.011
feeling because i don't think that's good for you as a person yeah you see what

00:49:33.011 --> 00:49:36.621
i'm saying that that might be something maybe we need to john get into that

00:49:36.621 --> 00:49:40.951
one we need to have he needs to we should have john on once a month he needs to be on speed dial,

00:49:41.571 --> 00:49:44.911
we should do a segment with him in because yeah but you know we are talking

00:49:44.911 --> 00:49:46.670
about like like psychological.

00:49:47.906 --> 00:49:53.816
Um, need for validation and, and people to, you know, like there's,

00:49:53.816 --> 00:49:54.746
there's something to this.

00:49:54.746 --> 00:49:58.856
Yeah, for sure. Um, you know, like if you're, if you're in like a coaching position,

00:49:58.856 --> 00:50:02.906
like your words matter to people, the way you make people feel it makes it's,

00:50:02.906 --> 00:50:05.226
it's, you should, this is why we go back to like, we talked about culture a lot.

00:50:05.226 --> 00:50:09.076
So it should be very welcoming and like, just have the right frame of mind to

00:50:09.076 --> 00:50:14.632
like make everyone feel like they're wanted and they're valued and that their work is recognized.

00:50:15.288 --> 00:50:19.410
And in whatever capacity whatever path like you've mentioned earlier,

00:50:19.892 --> 00:50:22.856
they choose like there's there's going to be a quest for that person no matter

00:50:22.856 --> 00:50:25.976
what and like you just want to see them like succeed in in whatever realm they

00:50:25.976 --> 00:50:30.898
feel motivated to to push themselves in and that's the job oh yeah it's not to like,

00:50:31.478 --> 00:50:35.496
demean or make someone feel small because they're not competing blah blah blah

00:50:35.496 --> 00:50:39.376
don't do that and on like and i don't think most coaches do that no,

00:50:39.896 --> 00:50:44.649
and on a note with that there might be some but i think of a few who probably do but like,

00:50:45.165 --> 00:50:49.376
yeah they shouldn't they should um on a note with that and i was thinking about

00:50:49.376 --> 00:50:53.336
this when while you were talking about like you know the practices and stuff

00:50:53.336 --> 00:50:55.922
like that like i bet you if you go to

00:50:56.317 --> 00:51:01.129
any college sports program professional sports program and you talk to those

00:51:01.535 --> 00:51:04.656
like the stars of the team i bet you some of their

00:51:05.076 --> 00:51:09.012
like the people that they appreciate the most

00:51:09.448 --> 00:51:12.486
are the guys on the practice squad, the scout, the scout team,

00:51:12.486 --> 00:51:14.276
like who have made them better, who are,

00:51:14.916 --> 00:51:17.396
they're the guys that show up and don't get, they don't do the,

00:51:17.396 --> 00:51:18.466
they don't do the competition.

00:51:18.466 --> 00:51:20.622
They don't do the, they don't do that part.

00:51:20.738 --> 00:51:23.647
They show up and they just practice, which honestly is.

00:51:24.873 --> 00:51:30.560
Is hard as shit because as someone like as someone who but the reward is competing

00:51:30.560 --> 00:51:34.050
man the heart the hardest part is the fucking grind the grind is the hard part

00:51:34.050 --> 00:51:38.367
the guys that show up in like especially like right now so right now,

00:51:38.954 --> 00:51:46.292
at least half of the dudes that half of my morning class are competing so like over over 50 percent,

00:51:47.138 --> 00:51:52.352
the other guys are showing up and doing competition practices five days a week

00:51:52.457 --> 00:51:56.300
gritting it out and they're not early as fuck what time like 5 30 in the morning

00:51:56.654 --> 00:52:01.780
and they're not even gonna compete they're not doing the fun part which is the like your competitors

00:52:02.220 --> 00:52:05.064
should kiss their feet they should yeah you should kiss their feet

00:52:05.355 --> 00:52:08.890
guys you should be buying them coffee and breakfast every like some you guys

00:52:08.890 --> 00:52:12.410
should be bringing donuts in for these for these guys they're the heroes they're

00:52:12.410 --> 00:52:16.480
your fucking heroes the hobbyist show up every day and fucking grind especially

00:52:16.480 --> 00:52:20.350
at 5 30 in the morning big time that dude's a fucking hero He's a hero. You know what I mean?

00:52:21.946 --> 00:52:24.094
And so I was thinking about that. I was like, no, dude, like,

00:52:24.663 --> 00:52:26.960
you competitors are actually just doing the fun part.

00:52:27.640 --> 00:52:30.920
It really is a reward. You guys really aren't special. It doesn't feel like

00:52:30.920 --> 00:52:35.400
it, I guess, until maybe like, you know, every once a couple times a year,

00:52:35.400 --> 00:52:37.960
like, you're like, yeah, that is pretty fucking cool that I get to do that.

00:52:38.860 --> 00:52:42.209
So appreciate that. And you're so right, man. Like, excuse me.

00:52:44.473 --> 00:52:46.859
And you know this about me, at least. Most of my...

00:52:49.045 --> 00:52:53.195
Many times in my journey i've been the only person competing and like dude i

00:52:53.195 --> 00:52:56.808
could i i should have like a hall of fame of training partners who who,

00:52:57.314 --> 00:53:01.175
made me capable of doing that because they were there sacrificing their time

00:53:01.175 --> 00:53:04.779
and working super fucking hard um to help push me,

00:53:05.330 --> 00:53:08.985
and i know a lot of those guys went on to do some competitions too so like they've they've had,

00:53:09.485 --> 00:53:12.345
their they've had their opportunity well and sometimes it convinced it it gets

00:53:12.345 --> 00:53:15.165
them to sign up a lot of they're like fucking i'm doing this i might as well

00:53:15.165 --> 00:53:17.735
a lot of times it does a lot of times it But to your point, like,

00:53:17.735 --> 00:53:20.638
it's like I could give you, like, a hall of fame of dudes who have helped me,

00:53:21.294 --> 00:53:25.648
guys and girls who have helped me be able to do that.

00:53:26.095 --> 00:53:28.965
And without them, I couldn't do it. Well, because, like, right,

00:53:28.965 --> 00:53:32.641
we, the guy who's competing has a reason to do it.

00:53:33.338 --> 00:53:37.843
The guy who's not competing, their reason is to help you compete.

00:53:38.400 --> 00:53:41.235
They don't, so, like. At least part of the reason, right? Yeah,

00:53:41.235 --> 00:53:45.668
like, you're doing the, you're doing the competitor, you're doing the selfish thing.

00:53:46.306 --> 00:53:51.975
The other person is being very selfless it's true in that moment by letting

00:53:51.975 --> 00:53:56.505
you know providing you someone to practice with,

00:53:57.045 --> 00:53:59.585
and sometimes you know you might be you might have someone you're paired with

00:53:59.585 --> 00:54:03.265
who's also competing but that's not always the case right like i said it's 50

00:54:03.265 --> 00:54:10.676
50 in that in that morning class right now so lots of heroes lots of heroes big time man so you know,

00:54:11.401 --> 00:54:14.565
be nice to them yeah i appreciate appreciate them.

00:54:15.365 --> 00:54:18.965
Buy them some big john buy everyone coffee and donuts.

00:54:19.952 --> 00:54:23.025
Yeah buy my you know while you're at it buy mike some coffee and donuts when

00:54:23.025 --> 00:54:25.045
i get back from vegas i expect coffee and donuts,

00:54:25.925 --> 00:54:32.425
a box of donuts so yeah i mean so yeah i i think we did it i think we did it

00:54:32.745 --> 00:54:37.825
i i originally was not going to do a combat confessions but i had one you got

00:54:37.825 --> 00:54:40.802
one all right bro let's hear it uh,

00:54:42.103 --> 00:54:45.888
this would be a quick one because we just basically did a whole episode on them um,

00:54:47.065 --> 00:54:51.870
And this is, once again, we're going to Reddit. So like, how real is this?

00:54:51.870 --> 00:54:57.317
We will have a verified true story here on the next episode.

00:54:59.790 --> 00:55:07.870
But the thread is the stupid shit you said to training partners or anyone BJJ related.

00:55:09.350 --> 00:55:16.415
So this one is a confession because this guy is telling us, or girl, I don't know.

00:55:16.781 --> 00:55:21.100
Is telling us something uh i'm gonna guess it's a guy because they said recently

00:55:21.100 --> 00:55:25.800
well i don't know i'm i'm speculating here speculation uh you know they say

00:55:25.800 --> 00:55:28.645
about assumptions but so the combat confession is,

00:55:29.690 --> 00:55:34.320
stupid shit he's this person said to a training partner recently a woman repeatedly

00:55:34.320 --> 00:55:37.405
got me in guillotines when i was shooting a single or double leg on her,

00:55:37.968 --> 00:55:41.680
at the end of the roll i told her that my throat was hurting was true it was

00:55:41.680 --> 00:55:46.280
tight forgot what she said but she was disappointed in her guillotine and trying

00:55:46.280 --> 00:55:50.930
to be nice answered something like well if you were as strong as a man i would have tapped,

00:55:51.795 --> 00:55:54.088
that's funny and then their second one,

00:55:54.982 --> 00:55:59.423
Multiple times when I was just starting, like one month in, some advanced partners

00:55:59.423 --> 00:56:01.942
would get me in a choke but not be able to finish me.

00:56:02.395 --> 00:56:06.313
So I'd basically coach them during the role, place their leg slash arm,

00:56:06.313 --> 00:56:10.463
whatever, correctly, and let them choke me. The thing was that they would tell

00:56:10.463 --> 00:56:16.183
me, no, no, I don't care. Let's just keep going. But I would force it and they'd follow. Choke me.

00:56:16.983 --> 00:56:18.883
Is that another weird choke fetish thing?

00:56:19.932 --> 00:56:23.903
More choke fetishes. I have to be choked, please. Yeah. Yeah,

00:56:24.663 --> 00:56:27.906
and then I'm going to add one more bonus here because it's pretty funny.

00:56:28.277 --> 00:56:32.673
A friend of mine, upon meeting Fionn Davies, at a seminar of hers,

00:56:32.673 --> 00:56:34.994
half bowed and said 1,000 oses to you.

00:56:35.623 --> 00:56:40.875
1,000 oses. Yeah, that's funny. And that's combat confessions for today, guys. Yeah.

00:56:41.083 --> 00:56:43.649
Thank you for listening to Fire Drinking Coffee.

00:56:44.897 --> 00:56:47.873
Like, follow, subscribe, rate, review, all those things.

00:56:47.873 --> 00:56:55.172
Visit www.fdcpodcast.com drop some reviews,

00:56:56.283 --> 00:57:01.413
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00:57:01.413 --> 00:57:04.111
think it's just a donate tab or clicking the little

00:57:04.500 --> 00:57:09.823
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00:57:09.823 --> 00:57:12.610
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00:57:12.739 --> 00:57:16.575
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00:57:17.997 --> 00:57:24.123
And if you have some combat confessions, go to the Contact Us page and send

00:57:24.123 --> 00:57:26.367
us an email. Tell us your... Confess.

00:57:26.814 --> 00:57:30.723
Confess to us. Tell us the funny things that happened to you in jujitsu or leave

00:57:30.723 --> 00:57:33.303
us a voicemail and I will figure out how to play it on the show.

00:57:34.403 --> 00:57:37.783
So, you know, be careful with your personal information and do that one because

00:57:38.223 --> 00:57:40.641
I will play it. I might be able to edit it.

00:57:41.175 --> 00:57:43.718
We'll figure it out. It hasn't happened yet. I'll have it though.

00:57:44.124 --> 00:57:47.880
So thank you guys. We love you. Bye.